Navy

[Lambiorix_be]

Does anyone think the current types of ships are really that different?

I don't see any obvious incentive to create destroyers once I can make battleships and never any incentive to create a cruiser for that matter. I do noticed however that the AI very much likes the destroyer

Only exception is the carrier.

I hope this will be improved in the newest version..

[joncnunn]

Yes, this is particularly odd in light that in the real life navy, Battleships don't seem to be of much use.

In Civ III, destroyer has ability to detect invisible. The Battleship does not. (AEGIS Crusiers also have detect invisible flag in Civ III)

Destroyers are indeed faster than Battleships. (Not to mention cheaper)

AEGIS Cruiser should definately have the ability to carry missles and in addition have the interceptor missles that can intercept incoming missles.

[Shogun Gunner]

Everyone is displeased with the way the navy is handled in civ3.

1. Submarines are useless.
2. The worst aspects of modern warfare are fully on display in Civ3 naval battles - one unit attacks after another unit, in a rather predictable set of outcomes...no strategy, just numbers.
3. AI not smart -- it won't even move it's units close to bombard -- knocking a bit of the hitpoints off the enemy before engaging in close in action.
4. Takes forever to move a ship from one part of the world to another, but yet a tank can zip around the world as many times as it wants if the a railroad is built along the circumference.
5. Your point about the ships all being about the same is a good one to add to the complaint list

[General Ludd]

individual ships shouldn't be sailing around by themselves... navies should be made of task forces


Oh wait, this is civ - of course it's going to have a retarded, clumsy, illogical, and all around stupud combat model...

[Dida]

Task Forces can only be meaningful is each ship can contribute something to the group, such as having AEIGS Cruiser have the ability to shoot down incoming missles. Otherwise it will be just as boring. In civ3, I will put together a taskforce with nothing but battleship and 1 destroyer. Afterall, all you need is 1 destroyer to spot a sub.

The bigger problem with Navy is they are completely unnesscaary in civ3. I don't build much ship till I am done with my own continent and needs to project power to another continent. In real life, navy is inportant just keep a country safe, or to guard its trade route.

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Dida
The bigger problem with Navy is they are completely unnesscaary in civ3. I don't build much ship till I am done with my own continent and needs to project power to another continent. In real life, navy is inportant just keep a country safe, or to guard its trade route.

Same here. The only reason I build ships is to increase my average power rating not for actually using them...

[Shogun Gunner]

They make nice artillery for those situations where can't get the land based guns over to a new continent. Expensive guns, but guns none the less.

[joncnunn]

In Conquests, Submarines aren't useless against the AI since they can pick a transport to attack instead of the escorting unit.

Yup, ocean units are way too slow in modern era vs land units due to infinate rail.

Originally posted by Shogun Gunner
Everyone is displeased with the way the navy is handled in civ3.

1. Submarines are useless.
4. Takes forever to move a ship from one part of the world to another, but yet a tank can zip around the world as many times as it wants if the a railroad is built along the circumference.

[Optimizer]

The ship units should represent fleets rather than individual ships (except for battleships, super-carriers and strategic missile submarines), at least in the post-sail era.

You could have different kinds of fleets such as
* capital fleets
* coastal patrol fleets
* carrier fleets
* escort fleets
* submarine fleets

Some of them can be renewed when entering these eras
* steam-piston engine, optical telegraphy
* steam turbines & simple radio
* diesel engines, radar/sonar
* nuclear power, guided missiles, computerized navigation

[Addled Platypus]

if you are going to implement fleets, why not tasks forces?

[notyoueither]

I've had a lot of fun with ships in Civ3, but not quite enough.

I want to see a better naval game in CIV, but how?

[Optimizer]

It has been said before, but again...

In Civ 1-2-3, navies are mostly used for invasion, coastal bombardment and protection from these. In real history, the main task of navies was to protect merchant fleets from piracy and enemy blockades. That was implemented to some extent in CtP, because the trade routes were visible on the map.

We should have visible trade routes in Civ 4.

[Lambiorix_be]

Originally posted by Optimizer
It has been said before, but again...

In Civ 1-2-3, navies are mostly used for invasion, coastal bombardment and protection from these. In real history, the main task of navies was to protect merchant fleets from piracy and enemy blockades. That was implemented to some extent in CtP, because the trade routes were visible on the map.

We should have visible trade routes in Civ 4.

Indeed visible trade routes that will enable piracy would already give some meaning to your navy. Does anyone know what Civ4 will change (or not change) concerning navies?

[General Ludd]

As long as civ uses a square-grid map and indivudal units, there will never be a good "naval game"

[realpolitic]

I try to adjust the cost of each item so that they all become useful in one context or another. That seems the most sensible way to handle it. Subs are usually 40% off, which makes it useful for sinking transports. I often make destroyers faster and a bit weaker, which gives them a niche very different from battleships.