Wiki-List

[Trifna]

Hi there,

For those who didn't knew it already, there is an initiative to use the cIV List to bring it in a wiki (the page is already up and working, administered by lajzar). Don't ask me how, I have no idea how this is done

Still, I'm the one who proposed to actually used the List to build up the wiki so, while I have little implication in the experiment itself, I guess I can make the first step of getting authorizations to incorporate the authors' material in the wiki. If you wrote ideas that are in the cIV List, be kind enough to reply to this post and say wether or not you accept to see your ideas reused and modified at will in the wiki (or if you prefer, send me a private message).

And for those who would like to lurn more about wikis:
What is a wiki
or ask questions here but I guess lajzar is the answer provider on the topic rather than me


Here are people who already responded (positively):
Trifna (it's me... but hey, I like marketting my nick)
DarkCloud
Nikolai
Brent



PS: Would it be useful to sticky this thread for a little while?

[Nikolai]

Re: sticky: Send Ming a PM, he will gladly do it if he sees it fit.

[lajzar]

Probably goes without saying, but anything I have written can go on that wiki

[lajzar]

In response to various questions Trifna asked about the Civ wiki project, I have expanded the faq on that page.

http://lajzar.co.uk/wiki/index.php?Frequently%20Asked%20Questions

In particular, note the concepts behind ownership of ideas. General encyclopaedia information is not an owned idea, and should not have anyone's name attached to it. Comments (on anything) should be placed at the bottom of a page.

Ideas on a game mechanic can be owned ideas, and the original author is strongly encouraged to place his or her name on that idea. Editing the content of these ideas is strongly discouraged.

However...

Adding commenst to the bottom of these ideas is strongly encouraged. And if you think you have a better idea, feel free to post it alongside the first idea. Just because one idea on a given area has been posted, that does NOT mean we cannot have multiple ideas posted. The pla is to have every idea available for viewing, so that developers can see everything at a glance.

[Trifna]

Well, there are some discussion about all this at the moment coming from different views. So it does not seem finished at the moment.

To me, the word "wiki" would not have been invented if it wasn't to define something that is intended to be modified by users, etc etc

[lajzar]

Actually, the word wiki refers to the speed and ease with which changes can be made (it is Hawai'in for fast). The etymology has nothing to do with modification.

One thing I failed to note is that any idea that is not explicitly claimed (by being signed) can be freely edited by anyone.

Also, I cannot actually stop anyone from modifying other people's words, and I suspect fighting a determined effort by even a single person would be excessively time consuming.

Thing is, I know there are competing ideas which are not mutually compatible. And if people were encouraged to keep the whole wiki internally consistant as a single design document, the logical response would be to delete en masse anything that is incompatible with your latest brainchild. by making a "don't delete or change another person's signed words" rule, I was hoping to establish a ground rule to encourage people to place ideas there and so people would be fairly certain that anything they put up would remain. Unlike the content of traditional encyclopaedia wikis, there isn't any objective 'truth' against which to measure the content of an article, as every article placed is a primary source, unlike wikipedia which is exclusively a secondary source.

Of course, I can't stop you from changing stuff. I've given you the toys, made a playground. Let's hope you can play nice in it

[Trifna]

Ok, so I see it is public discussion now, so lets bring the whole thing here instead of bit and pieces. Here's my last private message to lajzar, saying a bit of my position:


It does not amount exactly to the same thing on one aspect: if we say it is a wiki, it is supposed to be one
Wiki means something for many people, and to say them that it is a wiki if it is not seems like an issue to me.

I believe that what can be changed afterwards permits to get the information potentially managed more effectively at each change that is done. Otherwise, you get more rehash of almost-the-same ideas. Often someone can come and find a way to say the same thing, but in some better way, just as it is for wikipedia.org. It was the whole point of their project and everything gets re-written.



Now, you had not mentioned this up to now:
"by making a "don't delete or change another person's signed words" rule, I was hoping to establish a ground rule to encourage people to place ideas there and so people would be fairly certain that anything they put up would remain"

This is truly an issue (I already saw a chaotic situation based on this). I believe that it is something you can also see for the wikipedia.org and I would guess it needs to be managed. I know that a log is kept so old versions are not lost, and editor do limit any forms of vandalism. But by having texts changed, a same idea can be written in a way that is more efficient (not repeating itself, change an example...).

[Skanky Burns]

I still say opt-out is the way to go. Or at the very least advertise this thread in your signature so people who contributed to the Civ4 list many years ago but only post on other sections of the site may see it.

That being said, you may use any and all my contributions for such a noble cause.

[Trifna]

We have a FOURTH acceptancy here.


Wouhou.




__________________


That said, as mentioned in the other thread, I think we can consider that it is like quoting the Civ4 List, simply. Thx

[Nikolai]

I think that's best.

[TechWins]

You have mine as well.


Seeing as how most of the ideas will only be able to be implemented into an expansion pack or Civ 5 it doesn't matter much to me.

[TechWins]

Btw, attached is the Diplomacy ideas thread document. The last time I updated it was last August and looking at that wikipedia it doesn't seem like most of the ideas were put up. Then again I'm not exactly sure if all the ideas are meant to be put up. At any rate, though, the document is there and if people want to put up the ideas go right ahead.



EDIT: I saved it as a RTF, so it will show the last update was April 10, but the real last update was Aug 20, 2004.

[Nikolai]

Isn't it a part of the List for cIV anyway, so it can be taken directly out of that one?

[TechWins]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Isn't it a part of the List for cIV anyway, so it can be taken directly out of that one?

Darkcloud asked for me to send that file to him again last December, but I never got around to actually sending it to him. I'm not sure if he was able to get the file or not (presumably elsewhere), so I figured I'd put it up here in case someone wanted to use it for the civ-wiki if it's not incorporated into the list.


EDIT: I should have just gone to look at the list to see for myself instead. It appears DC did get ahold of my copy, and he did a brilliant job on the entire list.

[Brent]

I wish other people would put more on the wiki, so I'd have more ideas of things to put. Maybe I should put a list of barbarian tribes or something. I wish someone would get started some more of the categories we had threads for here. I might be able to add little bits for new sections, but little bits aren't enough for new pages. I had ideas for that "Concepts Concerning Civilizations" page, but forgot them seemingly. In general it was supposed to be how they work and what characteristics they had, and I'd think the list of civs could be a subpage from there. Does anyone have any ideas for maps or scenarios to add to my pages there? Any alternate versions of characteristics for the civs in the list of civs?