Keep infinite railroad movement?

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST

IMHO it would be better, to allow the construction of Railroads also with Oil and Iron as soon as Combustion is discovered.
After all the next step after steam engines were Diesel engines and you would expect someone who has no coal but lots of oil, to use this instead to power his railroad engines (AFAIK there were even steam engines which worked with oil rather then coal ).

It´s a bad thing if you have no coal in your empire, but lots of oil and nevertheless are not able to build railroads

could not agree more

tied in with the following idea

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


That´s correct, but if this were the reason why you need Coal to build Railroads, you shouldn´t be able to build them before the discovery of the advance "Steel" (which is located 3 steps after "steam engine" within the tech-tree of Civ 3)

a few more

I am going to look at the C4 tech tree again

[Straybow]

Steam engines can also burn wood. Nowhere near as many BTU, but it works until you get your hands on something better.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


That´s correct, but if this were the reason why you need Coal to build Railroads, you shouldn´t be able to build them before the discovery of the advance "Steel" (which is located 3 steps after "steam engine" within the tech-tree of Civ 3)

How strange- given that steel preceded the development of the steam engine.

The way ramdom resources appear and then vanish in Civ 3 is most frustrating,

Toby Rowe


It's simply reflecting what happens in real life- silver, gold and tin deposits in the Mediterranean could be exhausted or at least mined out as far as the existing technology was concerned- so the Phoenicians could be prompted to look further afield than Spain or Cyprus, say to Cornwall or at least the trade routes that brought Cornish tin to Massilia.

[Toby Rowe]

Ok Molly,

Using the analysis is ignoring facts.

The UK has had Coal since coal was formed- certainly each mine that is closed loses the reserve on those seams forever, once the pumps are shut down. I think we still have about 10 mines left.

Tin and the Romans? I think Thatcher only ensursed the last Cornish tin mine closed in the 1990's, If you want White Gold, I think the last Welsh gold mine only closed in the last few years- even the Royal Family must now look elsewhere for the wedding band.

If you want a working holiday you organise yourself, you can go gold panning in the Scotish and Welsh highlands, in Spring you'll get about £60 per day (apparently).

The same UK resources have never been mined out, whether high-quality clay for pottery upto white gold, we've simply stopped mining them to a large extent.

Problem is, in the modern world, low prices for tin 10 years ago would now translate into high prices as China has nicked our jobs and now needs the metals badly, so all metals are at a premium as the Europe/US jobs vanish.
Once a deep coal mine et al is closed, you can't re-open it- ever.

Perhaps that is why I get so annoyed Civ 3 has such a cavalier attitude towards resources....

Toby

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Straybow
Steam engines can also burn wood. Nowhere near as many BTU, but it works until you get your hands on something better.

another reason to "chop"

Originally posted by Toby Rowe

Perhaps that is why I get so annoyed Civ 3 has such a cavalier attitude towards resources....

Toby

why is there such an assumption among civ players that the series actually mirrors reality...

talk about click fest

[Toby Rowe]

Because we view a serious game like Civ as mirroring the world we know- Civ and Civ 2 wern't fantasy games, but Civ 2 stretched it on resources.

If you create a game designed to mirror reality, expect people to get annoyed when a developer takes the piss.

Toby

PS- If you ever played any of the SimCity series did you really like a steel robot mucking up your city that you lovingly made? Funny? Not!

[Dis]

Originally posted by GeoModder
The same counts for oil then over time. At least in my part of the world most trains work on electricity nowadays.

electricity? diesels are used in the U.S. (aside from light rail and subways etc)

in that case, combustion and steel should give the ability to build railroads. Diesel isn't exactly combustion, but you get my drift.

[Straybow]

Molly, hand-forged steel came before steam. Mass produced, high quality steel came in the late 1800s.

[Addled Platypus]

not to brake out the big spoon

Toby

so once we start getting to larger cityies that have sky-scrappers, should the tech requirement be rivets like the real world first did?

could be entertaining,
but what effect on the overall game play be?


thank you for your time

[TheArsenal]

Skimmed this long thread and haven’t been part of the larger discussion in some months. Has someone previously proposed the concept of rail cars, meaning actual trains as a unit? The trains would be the only unit that could move infinitely on RR, but would have a limited loading capacity. And they could only be produced from cities that build, say, a rail yard. This would consolidate many of the concerns I’ve skimmed over.

Secondly as I’ve been out of the loop: what is to become of rails in Civ IV? I don't recall reading anything about this* in the articles posted.

*or diplomacy. But file that under "Different Can of Worms."

[Addled Platypus]

there is a screenie that shows woods going through a RR

rail cars...so simple.....where was my brain

what say everyone else

[GeoModder]

what say everyone else?

Something else, no doubt.

[Dis]

rail cars is a good concept, I'm just not sure if everyone want the added micromanagement in exchange for more realism. I'm not that big on it myself.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
Ok Molly,

Using the analysis is ignoring facts.

Which analysis ?

Are you suggesting that mineral resources are never exhausted or worked out ?


I have been to South Wales, many times, and to the remains of Roman lead mines and gold mines in Wales and the West Country.

I've also been to Cornwall many times, especially Penwith, and have been in the Geevor mine.


I've also been to the goldfields in Victoria, and I'm sure you realise there's a big difference between gold seams underground which need to be mined, and panning for gold in mountain streams.

Molly, hand-forged steel came before steam. Mass produced, high quality steel came in the late 1800s.

Straybow


? I'm unaware of suggesting anything different. However the Bessemer process was created in 1855.

The Newcomen steam engine dates from the early part of the 18th Century, Watt's improvements from the latter part of the 18th Century, and the Stockton-Darlington line opened in 1825, and the Liverpool to Manchester line 5 years later.

[campm@jor]

I am one of those persons who just like infinite railroad. Is is especially fun in extra large worlds where you can just use the goto button and voila, it is on the scene!

So, I chose the civ3 model because I realise that it would be otherwise to easy to conquer an enemy, like in civ2.