Purpose of CIV4?

[Elbert]

I have played CIV2 for one year almost every day till late hours. But at the end two things started to irritate me: Settlers and the length of a game. Controlling settlers cost too much time, I prefer the solution of CTP.

Sorry to say but I find the turn-based strategy game genre a dead genre with no improvement over the last 7 years. I bought CIV3 for 10 Euro, installed it, played 5 min and uninstalled it and never played it again. Just other graphics, tech and/or units is not the solution. Also more tech and units is not the solution, I prefer even a smaller tech tree.

So what do I hope for? A new direction but to be honest I dont know in which direction. That's up to the creative minds of game designers. What I dont need is a CIV4.

[Nikolai]

Well, that's your opinion, you will find lots of people disagreeing with you... (me included)

[joncnunn]

Actually Civ III Vanilla tech count was slightly smaller than Civ II.

(Civ IIs Steam Engine + Railroad techs merged into Civ III Steam Engine)

Civ III also broke up the one extremely large tech tree from Civ II into four smaller tech trees.

PTW restored many of the structures removed between Civ II and Vanilla Civ III and a few of the units.

Conquests both added and removed techs; required Radio tech was removed, but Iron Clads & Fascism optional techs added.

Both Civ II and Civ III allow moding the tech tree, and Conquests also allows a moder to make a tech untradable.

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Well, that's your opinion, you will find lots of people disagreeing with you... (me included)

And Firaxis.

So, byebye.

[Trifna]

Turn-based strat dead... Is Firaxis' budget at zero or is it that there's some demand somewhere?


Recent innovative TBS games:
- Political Machine
- Galactic Civilization with expansion (and GC2 coming. They also announced a fantasy-based one after)
- Paradox' Crusades + Iron something (WW2 game) + Victoria
- Spartan (and Legion 2 coming, graciously made by Slitherine)
- SuperPower 2 (yet not universally appreciated...)
- SupremeRuler 2010 coming very soon
- ALFA: Antiterror coming also (strategic troops command I think)
- Is Rome: Total War some kind of half-TBS?
- Others? Is Pirates turn-based? I'm not informed


It seems like there is an acceleration of the TBS production in fact. It may be the whole video game industry, or not (I don't know).

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Trifna
- Paradox' Crusades + Iron something (WW2 game) + Victoria

Real-time.

- Is Rome: Total War some kind of half-TBS?

The core of the game (the battles) is very much real-time.

- Others? Is Pirates turn-based? I'm not informed

More like a real-time adventure game than anything Civish.

[MarkG]

Atari just made some $15 mil selling a dead TBS license....

[Brent]

TBS is the genre that least deserves to be dead.

I think Culture was a good innovation.

I really think you didn't give Civ3 a fair chance if you only played it for five minutes.

I agree athat graphics are worth nothing.

We need the flagship of TBS to continue. Most of the ones out there just don't sound right to me.

The Editor is your friend.

The Political machine sounds like a great concept, but I guess it's not quite for me.

I guess I'll like GC2, although it sounds like maybe not as much as GC1.

[Alex]

TBS is dead, but we're still desperately trying to revive the corpse.

[Robert]

Hey Elbert, how serious should we take someone who only played civ3 for 5 minutes?

And about the settlers / workers problem: automation is a VERY VERY good innovation of civ3. It beats ctp public works every day.

[Maquiladora]

And about the settlers / workers problem: automation is a VERY VERY good innovation of civ3. It beats ctp public works every day.

You can automate Public Works around each city. Besides, whats the point in having a worker system at all then if you're letting the AI do it?

[Donegeal]

TBS dead?

Blah!

TBS is by far the best type of game for people of intelligence (did I spel that rite?).
All others are 90% clickfest graphic whores.

THEY are the dead genre.

(and thank you for the easy +1 )

[Robert]

1. you can micromanage some workers
2. it gives a new dimension, other then the "use a % of your money for public works" like you use a % of your money for science and a % for your luxerious
3. workers can be captured
4. workers cost population
5. workers can be moved, and stopped during the job they're doing. Workers can help each other to fasten the job
6. workers can be put back into cities
7. workers alter terrain that's not yours

what's public works? It's nothing but just another thing you can do. It removes depth from the game.

[Maquiladora]

1. you can micromanage some workers

You can micromanage some cities Public Works, and in a lot less time.

2. it gives a new dimension, other then the "use a % of your money for public works" like you use a % of your money for science and a % for your luxerious

Using a % of a resource to spend on tile improvements is a new dimension.

3. workers can be captured

Pillaging a farm or another tile imp has been made to give PW points to the pillager in a CtP2 mod already, or you could give extra population.

4. workers cost population

Public Works Tax costs productivity (or whatever resource you choose to tax in a new PW system) in your cities.

5. workers can be moved, and stopped during the job they're doing. Workers can help each other to fasten the job

You can decrease or increase your PW tax. I dont see any advantage in being able to stop a job and certainly not in spending lots of time moving workers around.

6. workers can be put back into cities

So?

7. workers alter terrain that's not yours

Same with Public Works.

what's public works? It's nothing but just another thing you can do. It removes depth from the game.

Whats workers? Its nothing but just a thing you have to spend large amounts of game-time doing, and becomes a chore for a part of the game that should be carried out in an easy and therefore fun way. Complexity doesnt equal depth.

[Solver]

Hmm, I am a great Civ fan, but have not played any other TBS games. Don't want to spoil it . But maybe I should try one...