Shoudl we wiki this?

[lajzar]

I just made a wiki page. We could place our best ideas in there instead of having to search through threads to find them.

The following link is the old site. I will keep it for archive purposes until all teh old data can be transferred. Please do not add new data.

http://www.lajzar.co.uk/wiki

This is the new site. Go wild here.

http://www.lajzar.co.uk/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=civ:home

[Trifna]

I like experimental projects when they learn me something... I guess I could lurn if wikis can work in such situations (which I am not sure about since I don't know the subject enough).

But the first thing, I think, is to get everything organized. I don't know to which extent a wiki can get everything organized if each issue isn't reviewed by a minimum number of persons.

The second one, with a wiki, is that I wonder if it will be an obstacle for Internet newbies that see their limit to the words "forum", "chat", "download" and "web". I never worked within a wiki, personally.

The third thing is that all the complicated ideas wont go anywhere. They are interesting, they are about how history can be understood, but they are not about what Firaxis may include for a game "for everyone in the family".


If a wiki brings more advantages than disadvantages over the present form, then foooooor I may even see how it functions

So could you inform us of the inconvenient and advantages of wikis, particularly pertaining to the three points above?

[lajzar]

Originally posted by Trifna
I like experimental projects when they learn me something... I guess I could learn if wikis can work in such situations (which I am not sure about since I don't know the subject enough).

But the first thing, I think, is to get everything organized. I don't know to which extent a wiki can get everything organized if each issue isn't reviewed by a minimum number of persons.

The idea is that each person who has developed an idea would place that idea in an appropriate part of the database. Where multiple people have ideas on the same topic, they should write in the same page, but divide off their ideas with a line or something, and put their names to their own sections.

The second one, with a wiki, is that I wonder if it will be an obstacle for Internet newbies that see their limit to the words "forum", "chat", "download" and "web". I never worked within a wiki, personally.

By all accounts, writing in a wiki is far easier than writing in html. At worst, it could be used exactly as if it were notepad, and a friendly person come along at tidy up the formatting a little. However, this idea is NOT meant to replace the primary discussion areas - I want this to supplement, not replace, the discussion boards.

At the moment, we get teh frustrating aspect of people referring to an idea that was on page 11 of thread xyz that fell of the top screen 2 weeks back. This idea is meant to keep good ideas in a stable location and in an integrated logical location.

Oh, and it's also searchable.

The third thing is that all the complicated ideas wont go anywhere. They are interesting, they are about how history can be understood, but they are not about what Firaxis may include for a game "for everyone in the family".

The ideas aren't necessarily complicated (although some are), but they are complicated to explain. heck, civ 1 (or even, say, that old space trader game Elite, or even space invaders) wasn't a particularly complicated game in principle, but their design documents (which is in essence what this would be) were doubtless horrible to read.

[Brent]

So anyone can go ahead and start putting in the ideas they consider their best, as soon as they wish? Do you have any particular comments on the relationship between the wiki and this and other civ4 forums, and the ideas we have already posted here? It all sounds like a good idea, but I'm hesitant to get started over there, wondering about ground rules. I know my ideas tend to be wacky, and I don't know how much contribution there is too much too fast. The first thing I think of to put over there is lists of civilizations. Naturally I would try to be reasonable with quantity and what I really think belongs, but should I go ahead? Lazjar, are you going to build more of a skeleton to get us started, and do you think a lot of other people around here will contribute? I guess we can categorize by what we think belongs in expansions or Civ5, or what is reasonable to think would be considered for Civ4.

[lajzar]

I plan to go ahead and add more skeleton (and content), but I'm heading towards a temporary time crunch thanks to moving house (and changing jobs etc) in a couple of weeks. But this is a project I fully intend on supporting.

ETA: Feel free to add content as you wish. If you add an entire new page of content, can you also add a link to it on the front for my attention, as I'll probably want to add some skeleton structure to place it more logically. Content that already exists will naturally get priority when adding skeleton to this document.

[Brent]

Well, I started adding some pages for individual civs, but I didn't pay attention to the instructions about naming pages. Is this excusable for a newbie like myself and is there an easy way to fix the mistake?

It willl be fun if other serious posters will get involved when they get a chance, and don't make the mistakes I did.

Does anyone have any suggestions of ideas of mine to put over there?

Do ideas best for separate but related games, like Multiple Earthlike Worlds, have a place over there?

[lajzar]

Don't worry. I realised after that the naming convention forces an odd look on the page titles. It was easier and mae more sense to rename France.

Carry on

[Brent]

Thanks. Do you think you'll get anyone to be sort of an assistant to you in running that thing? I know I'm not qualified, so I hope someone else starts participating, but maybe we you don't need such an assistant.

[Vince278]

Wikis have been suggested before. AFAIK it hasn't gotten anywhere.

[lajzar]

Originally posted by Vince278
Wikis have been suggested before. AFAIK it hasn't gotten anywhere.

They have been suggested before. Afaik, this is the first time it actually went from a suggestion to going live with an actual usable wiki put online for the purpose.

[Trifna]

But how many know how to use this? Quite probably a tiny minority. I'm part of the majority (yay!).

It may be the obstacle you meet: the more people in a wiki, the more potentially efficient. It'd need to be made easy by explkanations or something. And cIV List is running (competing) at the same time right now. Would you rather take the cIV List and make it wiki, when it's done?

[lajzar]

With the original authors' permission, I am happy to take their words and put them in the wiki.

[Brent]

Hey, I never used a Wiki until now and I'm sort of managing to use it.

Would it be good to have some sort of place over there for some sort of discussion about how to use it, for asking questions? Would that be better than posting that sort of thing here?

I don't think the Civ4 list needs to be done before putting it on the wiki. Even if only two people ever do anything over there, still one person shouldn't have to put the whole List over there.

Lazjar, you have my permission to add any of my ideas that you might find worth it.

[lajzar]

ok, faq section added

[Trifna]

I think that once the cIV List is done, we should ask each contributer if he agrees to see his ideas into the wiki. Simple, efficient, and it gives the best chances to the wiki.