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  • National Railroad Infrastructure Capacity

    Rail Capacity Transport Model

    -Rail capacity limits the number of units that can be moved in a given round.
    -Rail capacity determined by playtesting, but low enough that you couldn't move very much in a single round.
    -Infinite movement, limited capacity (as opposed to limited movement, infinite capacity).
    -Rail Capacity represents how many locomotives you have and the kind of technology you have. Different advances would help to increase it, eg a "Diesel-Electric Engine" advance or it could be tied to existing advances.
    -Possibly, Government might affect Rail Capacity (large bonus for Fascism for instance). It might also be scaled to map size.
    -Small countries have the same Rail Capacity as big ones, dependant on technology. This is to reflect the fact that huge empires always have infrastructure problems. It also limits the ability to overwhelm smaller countries with sheer numbers as you will both have the same Rail Capacity. It can still be done, but takes planning.
    -Units that don't use Rail Capacity don't get any movement advantage for being on the tracks. It's treated as road.
    -Excess Rail Capacity will be vital to the economy. Any unused Rail Capacity generates revenue. Using Rail Capacity to its limit every round will be prohibitively expensive, but moving units will not cost money out of the treasury per se. You just won't make any money. Also, because rail capacity generates a gold bonus, tracks no longer need to generate tile bonuses - meaning rails only need to be built between cities, not in every single tile.
    -Total Rail Capacity will not be high enough to defend or attack using a flow of units on the tracks. In the era of tanks and infantry it might be 10-15 points, perhaps less. Forces for an invasion - or defensive forces - will have to be built up slowly, over time, with much planning.
    -In war, if a border collapses due to invasion, you'll be in serious trouble, but not necessarily doomed. If you have more than one front you'll be doomed if your defences are weak and you're relying on railroads to supply defensive reinforcements. If you can only move a limited number of units you'll be forced to choose where they go. Pulling forces from defences on other borders will be difficult because you will not be able to build them back up there again in one, two, or three rounds, and if they are then also attacked ...
    -If you are expanding into enemy territory, you'll use your rail to transport new recruits from the homeland to the front, but the advance of your main force will occur by road and overland. Rails will just help somewhat to replenish your forces, but rails alone won't sustain an advance - you'll have to build up a large force during peacetime.
    -In peacetime, you'll be building up defensive forces and attack forces using your rails. This will take time and planning because you'll have to choose where, and if you choose wrong, it won't be possible to change easily. It will take many rounds to correct. Also, using too much rail will hurt your economy.


    Rail Capacity Interface in the Game

    -Rail Capacity Remaining displayed in the side box, where the Treasury and global warming and all that is, but also visible when a unit is displayed in that box.
    -When Rail Capacity is available and a unit is on the tracks, a small Entrain button appears in its options (just like the current buttons for Fortify, Sentry, Load, and all that). Clicking on Entrain changes the graphic of the unit to a locomotive (the type, perhaps, would change according to Advances), and allows it rail movement, at the cost of 1 Rail Capacity.
    -As soon as the unit leaves the tracks or engages in combat, it loses the locomotive icon and its rail movement is considered to be over, there is no need to "unload". If guerrillas/insurgents have been changed in the game as some have proposed, and you can't see them all the time, then if one surprises you on the track you are in trouble, fighting at a severe penalty.
    Last edited by frekk; November 22, 2004, 04:34.
    Railroad Capacity - Version 2

  • #2
    Changes to Rail

    My proposal is simple. It does away with infinite movement in favor of a flat movement rate for all units, regardless of their move points. This number would be somewhere around 10-15, but would be playbalanced. It may or may not scale slightly with map size, so, for example, a tiny map would allow units to move 10 tiles, and a huge map would be 15. However, the hard limit is still in place.

    I believe frekk is also on to something with the rail capacity idea. I wouldn't be quite so harsh as he would because of the other limit, so the unit limit would be much higher. It would depend on BOTH technology and the size of the rail net. Perhaps there could also be a city improvement that increases capacity. The limit would allow roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of a civ's units to move each turn. Like the number of tiles to be moved, the exact limit and what changes it would be playtested in order to achieve balance.

    Changes to the Rest of the Game

    The key point to remember is that infinite rail movement was included in order to cut down on the micromanagement necessary to worry about all of a player's units and especially Workers. If you want to remove infinite movement (and even if you don't ) then you have to compensate to make things easier to manage.

    Units

    The micromanagement of units can be assisted through the grouping of units into actual armies units. They would move together and there would be an interface which would easily allow the creation, splitting and joining of "armies."

    Additionally, you could put units into different "groups." This would essentially put every unit in the group on goto to a specific location. So in case you have a bunch of units on goto heading towards a border city that you end up losing, if they are all part of "Group 2" you could change the destination for "Group 2" to a location further back, and all of the units would automatically shift their destination. You could set things up so that certain cities automatically produce units that go into certain groups.

    Finally, there would be a unit management screen that would overlay a new interface over the main map. It would display every unit, its type, its destination (if on goto) and so on. Units in special army stacks and units in groups would be given special prominence on the screen. You would have a variety of options that would display or hide units in certain groups, armies, and so on.

    Workers

    Workers are a bit more tricky. The use of Worker gangs would help, along with the ability to queue up tasks for units to do, so you could plan things out ahead of time and simply watch them run later on without babysitting a bunch of Workers and having to worry about what everone is doing. Obviously there is only so much you can do, so an improved automated Worker AI would help. The ability to set preferences like roading, irrigating, mining, and so on would allow players to customize certain types of tasks for Workers and less babysitting.

    Like with military units, Workers would have their special overlay screen where you could see the locations of all Workers prominently, what their tasks are on the coming turns and their groupings. You could view and group them by task, be it a directly selected one ("Road tile x") or more general ("Road between cities in this region"). There would be other tools to help keep track of Workers on this screen, because there's more to do and I only have so much brainpower to put forward to a hypothetical project.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd like to keep it to the topic here: a capacity system for railroads, not how to change the whole game. If you love or hate the idea of a capacity system, say why. This isn't a thread about workers or whole-game changes.
      Railroad Capacity - Version 2

      Comment


      • #4
        Acutally, I believe that the problem with railroad is that its limit is NOT speed. It is how much it can move per turn.

        Hitler saw that when he tried to move humans all over the place to centralized killing centres...


        Edit: Hey... this is in MY List thread. I'll have to go add that hehe
        Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by frekk
          I'd like to keep it to the topic here: a capacity system for railroads, not how to change the whole game. If you love or hate the idea of a capacity system, say why. This isn't a thread about workers or whole-game changes.
          Like I said over at CFC (and you apparently missed), I support a unit limit.

          Okay, happy now?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Trifna
            Acutally, I believe that the problem with railroad is that its limit is NOT speed. It is how much it can move per turn.

            Hitler saw that when he tried to move humans all over the place to centralized killing centres...
            Yep. If you still had Slaves and the Sacrifice function you could even come up with some kind of mod ... a bit morbid for me though.

            Edit: Hey... this is in MY List thread. I'll have to go add that hehe
            Thanks! I would really like this idea to get to the attention of the developers, because I'm sure other ideas for changing rail already have. I'd like them to consider alternate ways of doing it, if they do end up changing it. Being that everything will be easily altered, it will probably not be difficult to limit rail movement in a mod already. But this is more than a default setting issue, if you were going to have the option to use it at all it would have to be part of the game. And for those that didn't like it, it would be easy to bump the caps up to 500 or something ridiculous, where you're not constrained at all.
            I don't really even care if something like this isn't default, if I at least switch it on, the way they have Plague now in C3C.
            Railroad Capacity - Version 2

            Comment


            • #7
              freekk, everything is getting into the List, don't worry. I'm the one managing the movement and supply thread (as seen in my signature).


              But if I were you, I wouldn't hope too much for getting the attention of the developers. Firaxis is oriented towards simplicity (which is nice to most players), already has its own ideas, goes for "1/3 old, 1/3 new stuff, 1/3 amelioration from Civ3", and their development is started since a while.

              They couldn't have based Civ3 on the Civ3 List since most of it was adapted to very serious players to start with. I understand your optimism, but when you get aware of contextual limits, wishes are a bit different
              Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

              Comment


              • #8
                I think there should be a limit to unlimited rail movement but Im agreeing with Firaxis in that I think its should be fairly simple as well.

                Why make it overly complicated?

                So we can have a buggy railroad movement system? Nah, not for me anyway.
                *"Winning is still the goal, and we cannot win if we lose (gawd, that was brilliant - you can quote me on that if you want. And con - I don't want to see that in your sig."- Beta

                Comment


                • #9
                  Excellent point, conmcb.
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