The List for Civ IV: Here it Is

[Toby Rowe]

The company needs only one list to view as it is a collection of our thoughts.

"I mean, if the community doesn't think that the list is important and people don't step in- then I don't see why we should force it through."

I've read the document is 190 pages long- come on, that's stupid- It must be edited into pracy form.

190 pages should vanish into no more than 40 pages, with effort made to combine key points into no more than say 4 pages of A4- if the programmers are interested they then have the relevant pages to view if they wish, If they like it, then they can utilise all 40/140 pages to learn more, but starting from 4 pages of A4, with all the key points within.

Toby

[DarkCloud]

true enough, but the old list was 400 pages plus
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The benefit of this list is the special subdividing, Firaxis can just look at the titles of each idea to get some idea what the idea consists of... then if they like, they can read more. that's the main benefit of this list.

so, in essence it's only about 20-40 pages when you just look at the sugestion titles, but when it involves more athn just the titles, then it expands to 190 pages

[Toby Rowe]

Hi DarkCloud.

So far you've done all the work, without being sure of any return (From Fireaxis)! (You are helping them, not the otherway round)

How about doing a poll within which you must chose only two/one field/s you would most like to see improvements within?

I'd vote for political systems (preferably none at start) and diplomacy. I'm sure others will have different priorities.

The key factor is a poll that will provide them with a clear idea of area's we most want to be improved, they certainly can't ignore it once presented- as it's future sales.

If a choice was "no bugs" I'd waste a vote on the option......


Toby

[Brent]

I'd say lots of premade scenarios and the editor, but I know I'd be vastly outvoted. But I hope we don't only submit ideas for two fields, and I would guess most of us would agree on that. If it is just two fields, I hope things like a wider selection of civs would come anyway and not count as a field for improvements. And it is said that the posting community does not neccessarily indicate what will sell.

[DarkCloud]

Toby

How about doing a poll within which you must chose only two/one field/s you would most like to see improvements within?

That would be a great idea- why don't you start that thread. I'd certainly vote on it!

Also, if you compiled and commented on the results, I'd put that in the list itself!

IT would be a good supplementary item.
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as for being unsure whether Firaxis will use the ideas- well, we're always unsure about thigns- but firaxis reads the ideas. What more can we really ask for?

So far you've done all the work, without being sure of any return (From Fireaxis)! (You are helping them, not the otherway round)

Well, the return could be the release of a game that everyone enjoys! In that case, everyone benefits!

[Toby Rowe]

Mate,

You are a senior board member and already know from the reams of paper which choices to pick (gotta narrow it down somehow!!) How about 8 choices? That would make me grind my teeth before voting.

For improvement:

1) Military- General
2) Combat
3) Political - General
4) Government Types
5) Territorial Integrity - General
6) Border Control
7) Diplomacy - General
8) Allies and Axis

I dunno, something like this.

No nashing of teeth for me, I'd vote for 6) immediately- even though it's the sub-topic of 5)

Oops, only realised I'd have no problem chosing once I'd laid out all 4 main fields to view- but that's just me.

Toby

[Brent]

We seem to really be running out of time now. What's going to happen? Anything different than so far? Any sort of special wrapping up type stuff? Or will it be decided that it would make sense for us to take more time? If this one started too late, should an organized Civ5 list start as soon as it's decided that no more ideas can affect Civ4? Would more get done that way? If this list wasn't as active as the Civ3 one because people were disappointed with Civ3, I really hope Civ4 is much better and gets many more people to participate for Civ5.

[DarkCloud]

Toby sorry I didn't see that until now, I've only been browsing the sections occasionally to see if a new thread has been summarized or not and didn't see it until now. That sounds like a good idea- did you ever start the poll (I'll do a thread search) but I might be able to incorporate that somehow into the document.


Brent
Well... I don't know how much time I'm going to have in early december, but In late december/ early january, I should be able to help wrap things up.

I'm sort of disappointed that we didn't have as dedicated contributions as I hoped.

And I apologize for not giving 100% of my time to this project- however, I am glad that I was able to organize you guy somewhat and get something pounded out- there are still a few more threads left to summarize and when those are done in early January, I'll get this sent off to firaxis.

I thank everyone for their contributions and volunteer work.

[Brent]

I guess we won't get a chance to do quite everything you had planned earlier, but I wonder if we'll get more paricipation for some of it. I guess any new versions of all the official threads is too much to hope for. I wonder how many people we could get to comment on/ vote on the ideas collected into the first posts.

[Trifna]

About a Civ5 List, I think (and said it many times) that it should really be oriented towards "simple and coherent". Even if it does not block more serious ideas and profound ideas, it should consider Firaxis' orientation (and consider that we want the game to be good for all...). GalCiv, in my opinion, succeeded in this line and pushed the limits further (Spartan also, but it is a more specialized game).

I believe that Spartan and GalCiv show that better and more coherent is not necessarily less user-friendly oriented and more into the details-oriented. This is the essence of "easy to learn, hard to master" moto.


PS: And while GalCiv 2 is in the works, Slitherine is building Legion II on the Spartan model. Wouhou!

[Dinner]

I love the Civ franchise and I honestly think Firaxis will do a better job then Infogrames/Atari did. Once Conquests came out Civ3 was actually a great game but the intial release was badly rushed and PTW should have been part of the core game to start with. It's nice Atari fixed the game but it would have been even better to have them release a less buggy and better tested product to begin with.

[DarkCloud]

I guess we won't get a chance to do quite everything you had planned earlier, but I wonder if we'll get more paricipation for some of it. I guess any new versions of all the official threads is too much to hope for. I wonder how many people we could get to comment on/ vote on the ideas collected into the first posts.

Oh well, thanks for all your dedication Brent thoroughout it all, nevertheless- and at least they read the first version of this list!

[Falconne]

Link for Culture wrong

Just a note: the link to the "Culture" thread on the first post is wrong. It should be: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=103866

[DarkCloud]

thanks!

[GAZ082]

I wonder if has been discussed how warmonger the civilizations were and are in CIV3 and if this issue will be corrected in CIV4, or at least, will be proposed to be corrected.