Potentially Crazy Production/City Improvement/Tile Improvement idea!

[Enigma_Nova]

There's a mighty device which can come to your aid!
dun dun dun
The EDIT button!

[Drachasor]

I was so excited to see 4 new posts on my thread.....

it was pretty anti-climatic. Perhaps I need to make a thread proposing that "KISS" be removed from the english language.

Hmm, moving population would be nice, but it seems to me there need to be some limits on that. Also, if the population model isn't change that much, then moving food around is a lot like moving population, or at least population growth. If you have a lot of excess food elsewhere you could double or triple the growth of new cities.

Vince278, do you think it goes against the principle of keeping things simple and calling those who don't stupid? Did my explanation sway you, or are you still finding things too complex?

Hmm, maybe I should have put in some sort of poll, so I'd know what people who browed the thread thought.

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

If an idea is seen as too complex, the correct insult would be to call its presentor 'non-influential'.
Calling those with complex ideas simply proves your own ignorance and stupidity.
...
Wait, what were we discussing again?

[DarkCloud]

the correct insult would be to call its presentor 'non-influential'.

No. It would be to call him 'vague'

Enigma_Nova- perchance, is there any possiblity that you could please refrain from your policing of the List threads- it's a little unnecessary and slightly spammy. These problems will work themselves out in the end, you don't need to post about them in 5-15 threads. It doesn't really help anyone and its a bit annoying.

thank you.

-DC
The List, Administrator

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Drachasor
it was pretty anti-climatic. Perhaps I need to make a thread proposing that "KISS" be removed from the english language.

Gene Simmons would have something to say about that.

Originally posted by Drachasor
Vince278, do you think it goes against the principle of keeping things simple and calling those who don't stupid? Did my explanation sway you, or are you still finding things too complex?

I don't think anyone anywhere in this thread has said anyone is stupid, least of all me. I do see some saying to KISS. I personally don't read posts with more than 3-5 paragraphs. If some people need more than that then they haven't completely thought out their idea.
(How about KISN? Keep it simple "non-influential?" )

[Drachasor]

The "stupid" thing was just a joke to avoid the term "KISS." I didn't take offense to anything anyone said.

Hmm, ok, well, I can get it down to one paragragh, if I exclude what I see the effects to gameplay would be:

Let every city you have either add shields/food to a community pool each turn or take shields/food from that pool. There'd be a limit to how much you could take based on city size (and perhaps improvements), and no limit to how much you could give away.

I also proposed adding a shield and a food version of capitalization.

*proceeds to shut up now*

-Drachasor

PS. I hope the one-sentence paragraphs won't stop you from reading this.

PPS. I can't keep my fingers still!

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Drachasor
Let every city you have either add shields/food to a community pool each turn or take shields/food from that pool. There'd be a limit to how much you could take based on city size (and perhaps improvements), and no limit to how much you could give away.

Oh. Sounds like a good idea even though it may have been covered quite awhile back. I think it would be great to pool food (and even stock surpluses) but it could be wildly abused if you try it with production. MOO2 did that well with food but didn't even try it with production. I also imagine if a city is "cut off" then it is also isolated from the pool.

Now that I think about it didn't Civ2 allow you to "pool" production by accumulating caravans? IMHO it was taken out of Civ3 for a good reason.

Originally posted by Drachasor
PPS. I can't keep my fingers still!

You could browse other websites while waiting for replies here.

[Drachasor]

In Civ II you could use Caravans to aid in the production of a wonder (50 shields each). My idea on production was more limited, basically a city could get maybe an extra 3 shields a turn or so per citizen per turn at best.

This should probably be considered in regards to the polution amount (basically those shields pollute twice), so putting all those shields into a high production city would make a massive pollution problem. This would use whatever pollution model cIV has--which might mean massive unhappiness and population growth issues.

Basically this idea would creat specialized cities. And then your midling cities taking in the extra shields would be producing your troops and other units. It allows your very high production city to focus solely on production (food comes from elsewhere, as with high trade cities), and send those extra shields to be better used by other cities. As opposed to wasting shields when you have twice as many as you need for what you want to build.

-Drachasor

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Vince278
You could browse other websites while waiting for replies here.

It is that I like to expound too much when I write. Since you said you don't read long posts, I was trying to avoid that.

-Drachasor

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Drachasor
In Civ II you could use Caravans to aid in the production of a wonder (50 shields each). My idea on production was more limited, basically a city could get maybe an extra 3 shields a turn or so per citizen per turn at best.

This should probably be considered in regards to the polution amount (basically those shields pollute twice), so putting all those shields into a high production city would make a massive pollution problem. This would use whatever pollution model cIV has--which might mean massive unhappiness and population growth issues.

Basically this idea would creat specialized cities. And then your midling cities taking in the extra shields would be producing your troops and other units. It allows your very high production city to focus solely on production (food comes from elsewhere, as with high trade cities), and send those extra shields to be better used by other cities. As opposed to wasting shields when you have twice as many as you need for what you want to build.

-Drachasor

A specialist city sounds good too. I generally set aside one to be a wonder city (and mine the squares). Now, if you send extra shields to a city thereby creating extra pollution (and the other ills) wouldn't that reduce the base production (and food) for one or more squares in the city? Then you'd have to send more to make up for that loss, and so on. So instead of having a specialist city you'd wind up with something akin to a heroin addict city. (Something tells me I may be misunderstanding again... )

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Drachasor
It is that I like to expound too much when I write. Since you said you don't read long posts, I was trying to avoid that.

Thanks. I can be guilty of expounding alot too. I try to avoid it though since I'm a slow typer (which may explain my desire for brevity ).

[Drachasor]

The idea is that since you'd have to handle pollution through the nose if you send a ton of production to a high production city, you instead split it up among smaller, less productive ciites. They can then make troops and such things more efficiently (with less/no excess shields).

I am not sure how or if pollution is going to be in cIV though, it hasn't been clear. Maybe they will change it so that it causes unhappiness and growth issues, in which case you might get riots (or the cIV equivalent) by stacking production like that.

Besides, it is better to spread out those shields among your otherwise less useful cities, so that they can produce faster, though something should be done to limit a super-wonder building city (bad unhappiness from lots of pollution would probably work...perhaps make it have a 50-70% production penalty if they are unhappy enough from pollution).

-Drachasor

[Vince278]

I'd like to see pollution handled differently too but by affecting squares it already impacts growth and happiness. Having it leave the squares alone and directly affect happiness sounds cool.

[Enigma_Nova]

Model the pollution realistically.
It takes resources to transport the shields, so there would have to be a small amount of pollution coming from that.

But, the process of making the shields and transforming them into something useful will take up most of the pollution;
in effect, if one city sends all its shields somewhere else to be turned into stuff, the total population is the same as if that one city used all its own shields.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Model the pollution realistically.
It takes resources to transport the shields, so there would have to be a small amount of pollution coming from that.

But, the process of making the shields and transforming them into something useful will take up most of the pollution;
in effect, if one city sends all its shields somewhere else to be turned into stuff, the total population is the same as if that one city used all its own shields.

Yeah, I was worried about the Wonder City issue though, but I guess that could just become the way to build Wonders. I suppose having various cities in your Empire help build a Wonder in one particular city would make Wonders feel like bigger projects.

I suppose it could be balanced by upping the cost of Wonders, so it isn't done too early.

-Drachasor