Civ IV will have a 3D map! A discussion of possibilities

[Enigma_Nova]

To solve the mod problems, Firaxis could simply add a 'mod workshop' akin to their own artists' design interface.
Then the point of easy modding becomes quite moot.

Wouldn't it be better for modders to make just one 3D model than to make a crapload of 2D models?
It gets annoying after a while. :/

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Leland

Right, so why would you want to have that partially distorted tile overlay at all? One might as well render the globe (or the currently visible area) with as much detail as the graphics engine allows and forget about tiles.

My understanding is that there will be a tile system, so it will have to be worked in somehow.

Getting rid of the tile system is a massive change, and would require a lot of diverences to the game, I think. Maybe in ciV or ciVI, but it is too much for cIV....at least considering the other changes I'd like to see.

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

So we're sticking with the Cylinder?

[Drachasor]

Well, you'd have to deal with distortion on a sphere, but that is manageable, and you can make it so that the player sees very little distortion by moving said distortion around. Difficult, but manageable.

I assume there will be cylinder and donut options though.

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how to get a sphere without lots of distortion.
Can someone make something like that in a 3D modelling program and send it to me?

[Drachasor]

http://www.phong.com/tutorials/wiresphere/

There's an example with a square grid. You don't see anything obviously distorted. I'll located something like that with hexes soon.

-Drachasor

[Enigma_Nova]

I was thinking of that, but do all the squares meet up correctly on the other side?
Or does it end up being a distorted mess?

[Tassadar500]

Why would it be different from the side you see?

[Enigma_Nova]

Putting it bluntly,
If you take that hemisphere and glue it onto its own back, you join some squares... and end up with things that aren't squares.

[Drachasor]

Everything is a square there. The thing is that not all the 'squares' look as square-like. All the horizontal circles never cross each other, and all of the vertical circles never cross each other. On the map you see, that means that at the east and west poles, and the north and south, the squares are fairly distorted (the concentric circles from the either the vertical or horizontal poles are much smaller, so the circle effect is stronger).

The other effect is that you won't go around a great circle by always going in a direction normal to one of the sides of the square (east, west, north south) most of the time.

Another way to handle the problem is to have the actual map be a cube, and then distort the image of the cube in the window so it looks spherical. You do keep great "circles" then, and you wouldn't notice the cubical nature really.

Similar things can be done with hexagons (though even the hexagon "square" would be distorted).

Anyhow, the basic idea is to hide the distortion so it feels like a sphere.

Naturally the best way to do a sphere is to get rid of the tile system or dramtically change it (don't have all tiles the same size/shape, and/or same area). I think this is too big a step for cIV though.

-Drachasor

[OPD]

A spherical map sounds like a lot of effort for very little if any benefit to gameplay, the current flat world with east-west wrapping is cool.
Also a flat map view would be preferable to that of a sphere anyway, just as in real life where a flat map of the world is better,even if less accurate, than a spherical globe.

A 3D map sounds really good. The SMAC looks ok, I'd like to see the 3Dness kept quite suble so that it's not too much of a dramatic change.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Drachasor
You do keep great "circles" then, and you wouldn't notice the cubical nature really.

Save for the 8 corners where you can go north, east and south and end up at your starting location. :/

Drachsor: It may look like a sphere, but try combining the hemisphere in your link with itself to produce a sphere.
You'll notice that it doesn't quite fit.

That sphere has a line of squares going around the equator.
Each square has a neighbour on both the north and south.
That in effect creates a series of bands, which can only end up as having the same # of squares around the equator in a small circle around the pole.
It is, in effect, a distorted cylinder.

[Tassadar500]

Enigma_Nova, you have posted 71 posts today. How exactly does that happen?

[Enigma_Nova]

I do what you just did 71 times.
Actually, I take 2-hour naps in between forum browsings, and I always write what's on my mind.
That's the way I become the most prolific.

---

What if, instead of a Cube, they had a more complex-looking thing, sort of like a sphere made from LEGO.
That could work. It would make some pretty @_@ pathfinding, but it could work.

[Enigma_Nova]

I do what you just did 71 times.
Actually, I take 2-hour naps in between forum browsings, and I always write what's on my mind.
That's the way I become the most prolific.

---

What if, instead of a Cube, they had a more complex-looking thing, sort of like a sphere made from LEGO.
That could work. It would make some pretty @_@ pathfinding, but it could work.