Civ IV will have a 3D map! A discussion of possibilities

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Master Zen
I've always wanted Civ4 to have a hex-based map and if it were 3d, it should be like a giant soccer ball world (a true spherical world).

Please firaxis, make it HEX BASED

No.

Way.

In.











HELL.

[Gramphos]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Giant soccer ball = sphere made up of a large number of hexes, not just six.

You can't make a 3D shape based on haxagons since If yo put them together so that they fit with each other you will fet a flat surface.

[sabrewolf]

here's a text i found quoted of soren johnson (AI programmer and lead programmer for CIV)

[...] We're a long, long way from announcing anything concrete about the game - largely b/c a lot of things might change between now and when we ship (in the distant future). However, I can certainly share one important point just so no one worries unnecessarily. Civ4 will be turn-based, and it will be tile-based.

[Jon Shafer]

Soren was the lead/AI programmer for Civ 3, he's now the lead designer for Civ IV.

As far as that quote, it doesn't really reveal anything about the nature of the tiles - simply that they will exist (as opposed to a province-type system). But I think it's a forgone conclusion that those tiles will indeed be diamonds.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Gramphos
You can't make a 3D shape based on haxagons since If yo put them together so that they fit with each other you will fet a flat surface.

it's not too much of a problem, because at 120x120 tiles (or however you'd call it on hex maps), the distortion for a whole globe is "only" 3° at the equator. towards the polar latitudes it gets worse and worse... but you've got that problem for any kind of regular shape, be it squares, hexagons or triangles

the only way to not have polar distortions would be to use a globe form. but then, it couldn't be tiles anymore...

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Trip
Soren was the lead/AI programmer for Civ 3, he's now the lead designer for Civ IV.

thanks for the correction

As far as that quote, it doesn't really reveal anything about the nature of the tiles - simply that they will exist (as opposed to a province-type system).

and also as opposed to non-tile-based systems (like all current RTS)

But I think it's a forgone conclusion that those tiles will indeed be diamonds.

i fear it'll be like that (instead of my favorite: hexagons) ... but still better than tile-less

[dexsquab]

My vote is for a hex-map.

But that's not important now. What I really want to see in this version is Canal-Building! I've been having to hack maps up far too often because I lacked the ability to dig a big ditch.

So, canals, yep, we need 'em.

[General Ludd]

There's no point in going 3D unless it provides a spherical map.

[dexsquab]

Aye, but then if you talk about how you tile a sphere, then you're looking at how to pack shapes onto the surface of a sphere, which is 'orrible. The only way to do a 3d enclosed object would be with several different tiles (most likely just a hexagon/pentagon pair). This would require a number of different tiles for each terrain type.

Or you could use circles, and just use software to smear the gaps between them, which would require some solid programming (and I reckon it would probably look nasty).

Chances are they are just talking about 3d-ish images, but still resident in a 2d tiled environment. In this case, all hexagons are the go. I mean, you're not gonna get a real 3d hologram globe to play with, are you?

[FrostyBoy]

A 3D globe as a map for cIV is mind boggling. Sure, it'll work easy for Populous 3, but notice how small it was?

For cIV, it would have to be massive in order to correctly display everything and leave plenty of room for actual gameplay.


A 3D Globe just isn't going to happen, not with today's standard computers.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Sn00py
A 3D globe as a map for cIV is mind boggling. Sure, it'll work easy for Populous 3, but notice how small it was?

For cIV, it would have to be massive in order to correctly display everything and leave plenty of room for actual gameplay.


A 3D Globe just isn't going to happen, not with today's standard computers.

Yeah, whatever.

For starters, how about explaining why a spherical 3D map would require anything more than a flat 3D map?

Perhaps it's that a flat 3D map can be small and still look good, in which case I say: Small? I don't want small maps! If you can't have huge maps in 3D, I don't want 3D and if you can have huge maps in 3D, there's no logical reason to not make it spherical.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by dexsquab
Aye, but then if you talk about how you tile a sphere, then you're looking at how to pack shapes onto the surface of a sphere, which is 'orrible.

Slight distortions in the tiles wouldn't really matter. Tiles don't neccisarily need to be the same size - just have the same amount of borders.


Unless you're thinking of puting the sphere together in the same fashion as a 2D map is generated - by placing pre-rendered tiles together like a puzzle. That doesn't neccisarily have to be how it's done. One method that comes to mind is just drawing a map with no tiles, and then lay a grid over top it and determining the type of tile by the percentage of different terrains in it. This could also lead to better looking maps and the possibility for hybrid tiles that could provide various different benefits.

[Jon Shafer]

I don't see any problems with distorted tiles as long as they're not too distorted.

[Urban Ranger]

Or you could get rid of tiles together and use a coordinate system instead.

[Robert]

it should be completely random