Wonder Idea

[Enigma_Nova]

Do you know how much playtesting would be required to get the balance right for something like this?
And we know how lax firaxis is with Playtesting...

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by ixnay
I would like to see more wonder-like things based on achievments in the game.

For example, how about rather than having a city build the Transcontinental Railroad, the game recognizes the furthest 2 cities you have apart on your largest continent, and by connecting those 2 cities by rail gives you a notice that you've completed the Transcontinental Railroad and you get a commerce/happiness boost for a period of time?

So then what sort of requirement would have to be satisfied for a civ to get this and the others to not do so?

To answer my own question, perhaps a critical number of tiles RRed, or for other Wonders, a critical number of improvements built. But then againall you need do is be a bit ahead in getting things that will benefit you anyway - in the Civs and SMAC until now a Wonder/SP has cost you a considerable amount of time and resources that could be well used for other things, as WELL as some kind of prerequisite. I like the idea, but there would have to be some serious rebalancing for you to get wonders without putting in a whole lot of time and resources you could end up wasting - that's the risk of Wonders, and without the risk it's not quite the same thing.

Perhaps if the WOnders all had lesser effects...?

[JamesJKirk]

One (of the few) good and original things that CTP2 had were the Feats of Wonder. If you did certain things in the actual game, like sailing around the globe, or defeating a larger empire, then you got some sort of bonus. This sounds like something like that, and if there were something I'd like Firaxis to take from the game, it would be something similar to that

[Maquiladora]

Or:
"The Holocaust", if built in a socialist civ, finds the smallest minority in most (all?) of your cities, and turns them into special workers (laborers, researchers, farmers, what have yous, except they work twice as hard as regular special workers) and kills them off at a rate of 10% a turn. Democratic civs WILL declare war on you if you build this, though. (e.g., the socialist Zulu builds the Holocaust, they have small amounts of Aztec citizens in many of their cities, and over a period of 10 turns they're wiped out, but do twice the amount of work before dying out)

On the CtP2 feats, yes they were unique and an excellent idea. Sailing around the world got you +1 move for all boats for 25 Turns. Building Theatres in 8 cities before anyone else got +5 Happiness for 15 Turns or discovering Gunpowder first everyones city walls were less effective against you for 25 Turns. There were many others.

[Enigma_Nova]

Prerequisite wonders...
I like the idea as it stands, but wouldn't it get just a little frustrating to prep a few turns for the wonder, when someone beats you to it?

BTW don't go for the 'first time' feats.
That just means whoever's in 1st position stays in 1st position and PWNs the crap out of everyone else - endlessly frustrating to balance in Multiplayer.

[Dauphin]

Civ4 shouldn't be timid about implementing the good ideas from CtP. Action triggered short term wonder events being one of them. And for those who dislike all things CtP - it isn't really that different to expanding the idea of golden ages and scientific ages of Civ3.

[Enigma_Nova]

I agree with you - just that the action-triggered events shouldn't always be the FIRST player to do something.

If you reward everyone's first global voyage, it's a lot easier than trying to balance the game so those who miss the first few event wonders can still catch up later.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Prerequisite wonders...
I like the idea as it stands, but wouldn't it get just a little frustrating to prep a few turns for the wonder, when someone beats you to it?

Make the pre-requisite wonders small wonders.

[Enigma_Nova]

That would fix the frustration, but someone will inevitably come up with a bright idea for a Major pre-req wonder.

I suppose if you made the prereqs sensible, like armies for a national defence grid, then it would work.
If the prepping stuff is useful anyway, it won't be frustrating.

Anyone ever beeline to Adaptive Economics in SMAX, only to lose the PEG? Man, the Secret Project is -the- reason to go off the beeline. Someone takes that, you've just wasted lots of lab points.

[Drachasor]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I agree with you - just that the action-triggered events shouldn't always be the FIRST player to do something.

If you reward everyone's first global voyage, it's a lot easier than trying to balance the game so those who miss the first few event wonders can still catch up later.

I agree with this on action wonders. They should be available to everyone with one caveat. If your technology advances to a certain point then it should eliminate the bonuses you get, or if you haven't done it, make it so you can't do it. Afterall, sailing around the world in a destroyer is nothing special.

Perhaps there should be extra bonuses for doing it early or with a special unit. If you manage to sail around the world in a tireme then you deserve something.

-Drachasor

[Dauphin]

Have all action wonders available to everyone, just reduce the benefit from them for each subsequent person who achieves it.

If you are the first person to go around the world you get 1 movement point for 30 turns. The second person gets it for 25 turns. Third person for 20 turns. All others for 15 turns. It then promotes continued competition for second and third place.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Have all action wonders available to everyone, just reduce the benefit from them for each subsequent person who achieves it.

If you are the first person to go around the world you get 1 movement point for 30 turns. The second person gets it for 25 turns. Third person for 20 turns. All others for 15 turns. It then promotes continued competition for second and third place.

I always thought the Manhattan Project should've been a small wonder. Making it an "action" wonder as above sounds good too.

[Enigma_Nova]

Continued competition for second place makes sense.
...
How many civs are on a map total? If the number is more than 9, competition for 3rd place makes sense, too.