Recommend City Pollution Managers

[IronMan]

Originally posted by Flinx
Current System:
Remove a citizen from the general population by building a Worker unit and use this unit to clean up pollution.

Proposed System:
Remove a citizen from the general population by conversion to a specialist Pollution Manager whose purpose is to clean up pollution.

This is somehow different?

It is dramatically different! I will explain how:

Current system: Assume you have railroads built connecting all of your cities. You can move workers from anywhere in your empire to clean up a polluted square. These workers don't have to come from the affected city. It's like playing pop goes the weasle, cleaning up the polluted squares and the polluted city is not neccessarily paying for it! There is no effective cost burdon on the city, if workers come in from across the empire to do clean up.

Proposed system: Converting a city production worker into a pollution specialist will directly reduce production output for that city. This loss of production continues, until a pollution reducing improvement is either built or paid for, which lowers the pollution output value for the city. The polluted city now pays for the cost of clean up and the affect is a loss of that city's production. That is the difference.

Is not the proposal more realistic than playing pop goes the weasle?


Ironman

[Flinx]

Originally posted by IronMan
Is not the proposal more realistic than playing pop goes the weasle?

No. In real life specialised crews travel all over world to clean up waste/pollution. Just like the Civ3 Workers.

[IronMan]

Originally posted by Flinx
No. In real life specialised crews travel all over world to clean up waste/pollution. Just like the Civ3 Workers.

Oh really? Do city of San Francisco garbage men, from California, get paid to travel all the way across the country to collect trash from New York city? How about hazardous materials like paint, thinners, pesticides, etc.? No. Individual cities provides these collection services for their local communities. Exception might be for Nuclear waste, which is transported to Nevada. Even then, the city provides the resources to clean it up.

There is a good chance that the city, in which you live, charges you a monthly fee to pick up trash. You might even have a water bill that you pay to protect your clean drinking water from becoming polluted.

Local services are paid for by local communities in a city.


Ironman

[Flinx]

Clearly you are convinced of the superiority of your own idea.

[IronMan]

Originally posted by Flinx
Clearly you are convinced of the superiority of your own idea.

Maybe the proposal simply has merit and will improve the game. Maybe not. That is what this poll hopes to find out.


Ironman

[Panag]

hi ,

yes include pollution managers but keep the worker option also , ....

and it should only be available with enviromental studies or so , ....

have a nice day

[H Tower]

Since when is trash pollution? You're saying that they are one and the same, I'd disagree with you. Pollution is chemicals spilling into the rivers, smog in the air, oil spills, etc. The garbage man picking up my trash every monday morning is not pollution.

I say workers

[InterCiv]

let's return the enginneers!!
with new options and capabilities!
i agree with the polution manager.. and i agree to create more kind of specialists

[grap1705]

Iron Man has a point, but only partially I think because H Tower is right: trash and chemical wastes are different types of "pollution". And in real world, not any worker goes out to clean nuclear or toxic wastes, which are the ones we are really talking about when a square becomes polluted. Hence workers (or better Civ2 Engineers) should remain to clean up that kind of pollution.
But why not also have another specialist (by the way, Civ3 has more than 3 specialist, have you played it Iron Man or are you based on Civ2?)? The city can very well dedicate someone to enforcing antipollution law, whic would have an effect in containing the level of pollution the city generates: controlling plants or cars and trucks, etc... No need to have an extra reduction of production given that the citizen specialized in this task already causes production to drop... unless he was an extra idle citizen when all squares are already occupied.

[Panag]

Originally posted by IronMan


Oh really? Do city of San Francisco garbage men, from California, get paid to travel all the way across the country to collect trash from New York city? How about hazardous materials like paint, thinners, pesticides, etc.? No. Individual cities provides these collection services for their local communities. Exception might be for Nuclear waste, which is transported to Nevada. Even then, the city provides the resources to clean it up.

There is a good chance that the city, in which you live, charges you a monthly fee to pick up trash. You might even have a water bill that you pay to protect your clean drinking water from becoming polluted.

Local services are paid for by local communities in a city.


Ironman

hi ,

well he probably did not have the garbage men on his thoughts , .... since we dont have streets we can look at the pollution as something thats bigger , in other words like it is now , ....


but we should be able to let a worker clean up lets say in an area of only 30 X 30 squares on top of the regular pollution cleanup , ....

have a nice day

[IronMan]

Originally posted by panag
...we should be able to let a worker clean up lets say in an area of only 30 X 30 squares on top of the regular pollution cleanup

Thus, far the vote is split evenly and I believe it indicates a desire to have both options! Perhaps when city polution gets so high and the pollution managers, are not created to clean it up, then the squares around the city become polluted also. This would force clean up requiring both workers and city pollution specialists. You might say it's like calling in for federal disaster relief workers, who work along with city officials to clean up the mess in the surrounding areas. There is some realism with having both.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Why limit ourselves to one or the other, when we can satisfy both camps on the issue?

Does anyone agree or disagree?


Ironman

[Tripledoc]

I agree except for point 3. If pollution happens workers must still clean it. I imagine that you mean that one pollution manager will take away one deathheads sign?

[Panag]

Originally posted by IronMan


Thus, far the vote is split evenly and I believe it indicates a desire to have both options! Perhaps when city polution gets so high and the pollution managers, are not created to clean it up, then the squares around the city become polluted also. This would force clean up requiring both workers and city pollution specialists. You might say it's like calling in for federal disaster relief workers, who work along with city officials to clean up the mess in the surrounding areas. There is some realism with having both.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea. Why limit ourselves to one or the other, when we can satisfy both camps on the issue?

Does anyone agree or disagree?


Ironman

hi ,

its a good idea

the managers could also limit thenselfs for example to building pollution or so , they should be able to cut it max in half or so , ....

have a nice day

[Darkchampion]

I liked the MOO2 (master of orion 2) pollution system better than any system I've seen in other games. Instead of pollution being a micro managed hell, it is enacted more abstractly. In MOO2 when a planet makes lots of production, it begins to produce pollution. The more production you have the more pollution it makes (roughly 1 pollution for every 2 production). Each point of pollution subtracts 1 point from production to represent the effort required to clean up and dispose of the excess waste. This was modified by things such as pollution processors and the like (aka recycling centers).

So instead of having to sit there and manually clean the crap up, you instead just have a production penalty. The incentive for things like mass transit system and recycling center would still be there but pollution would no longer be annoying and micro managed... You could still leave in the ability to damage tiles (bombing, artillery, volcanoes and nukes) as these types of damage should be more severe and difficult to clean up.

Just my 2 cents.

[Tripledoc]

I agree to the above regarding pollution from production.

One observation though. I have found that population and not production is the main source of pollution.

How is this to be implemented Moo2 style?