Hexes instead of squares

[Mompariglia]

War is so simple in CIV series. Have you ever wondered why? Because CIV uses squares, while all wargames use hexes. I think that hexes would be the only real revolution for CIV 4. What do you think?
M

[Maniac]

Why that might be a good idea! I'm pretty sure many will agree with you on this.

[joncha]

Don't be so hard on the Settler.

Here's a link to the most recent thread on the subject, Mompariglia:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94361

[Naokaukodem]

Re: Hexes instead of squares

Originally posted by Mompariglia
War is so simple in CIV series. Have you ever wondered why? Because CIV uses squares, while all wargames use hexes. I think that hexes would be the only real revolution for CIV 4. What do you think?
M

I guess that you see accessibility as a wrong thing then, Mompariglia?

[alva]

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to hex fields.

[Mompariglia]

First of all, I apologize for posting a new thread on this subject while there was another one already opened. However I saw that in the other thread the hexes-or-squares issue is treated as a merely graphical or aesthethical issue, but there's much more at stake here.
War is terribly simple in Civ 3 both for squares and because the max dimension of the map is still very little. Even using El Mencey's huge Earth map space is so limited that wars are just frontal clashes of units: there's no space for manuever, that's the most interesting part of war games. Does anyone know "The operational art of war"? It's the greatest war game of all times, and the developers should give it a look for the military section of the game. Most of all the concept of supply lines should be fully implemented.
M

[Skanky Burns]

For the record, I support hexes.

[Naokaukodem]

Sorry but i don't get you really Mompariglia... what is the link between hexes and "strategy space" or supply lines? I may be in lack of some concept by the way...

But i think atleast that there is in civ3 all the room needed as the units moves in stacks of infinite number of units (stronger in defense: the strongest defender take the attack when it have already been attacked)

[Mompariglia]

Naokaukodem, I was suggesting to make Civ an operational-level game, this is the link. It's a bit complex to describe, as there is not a general agreement on the terms I will use.
Let's say that in war there are three levels: the strategic level (in which you exploit your resources and build your army for long-term objectives in order to be in a superior position at the operational level), the operational level (in which the army is used to prepare the best conditions for the tactical level), and the tactical level (in which you try to win single battles using the forces created at the first level and placed at the operational level). Civ is a strategic-level game. TOAW is an operational-level game, and Combat Mission is a tactical game.
Now, we all agree that Civ is a great strategy game, but it lacks a realistic simulation of war. In order to improve the realism (and the amusement) regarding war it should become "more operational". That means that the map should be hex based and much more large in order to simulate the manuevers of the armies. Supply lines is just another concept that should be added to improve realism. It's very hard to explain, but if you try to play games such "The operational art of war", "Uncommon Valour", or the upcoming "Battlefields!" you'll realize what I mean.

[pg]

after playing my first war game(panzer general) i would say hexes would be better than squares. before that i was definately a pro-square guy. i wonder how many people support squares that haven't played a war game(with hexes)?

[Atahualpa]

War is so simple in CIV series. Have you ever wondered why?

I cannot see your point why it should get more complex using hexes. You have 8 directions with squares and 6 directions with hexes. Now whats more simple?

Anyway hexes or squares is pretty irrelevant. Its a flavor thing and the civ flavor is squares, the Panzer General flavor is hexes. Civ is strategy, Panzer General is tactic. Squares for strategy, hexes for tactic

[Skanky Burns]

Hexes model movement and distance better than squares.

[Naokaukodem]

Originally posted by Mompariglia
Naokaukodem, I was suggesting to make Civ an operational-level game, this is the link. It's a bit complex to describe, as there is not a general agreement on the terms I will use.
Let's say that in war there are three levels: the strategic level (in which you exploit your resources and build your army for long-term objectives in order to be in a superior position at the operational level), the operational level (in which the army is used to prepare the best conditions for the tactical level), and the tactical level (in which you try to win single battles using the forces created at the first level and placed at the operational level). Civ is a strategic-level game. TOAW is an operational-level game, and Combat Mission is a tactical game.
Now, we all agree that Civ is a great strategy game, but it lacks a realistic simulation of war. In order to improve the realism (and the amusement) regarding war it should become "more operational". That means that the map should be hex based and much more large in order to simulate the manuevers of the armies. Supply lines is just another concept that should be added to improve realism. It's very hard to explain, but if you try to play games such "The operational art of war", "Uncommon Valour", or the upcoming "Battlefields!" you'll realize what I mean.

I don't think map would have to be larger... I have enough problems to maintain financially my army like that to add some more and see any trahison/war as a fatal hit and army travels very costly, timely speaking.
As for an operationnal game i think that hexes are coupled with the fact that units can't stay in the same tile what has never been implemented in any civ until now.

[Colonel E]

Hexes would be a problem because you couldn't use the numeric keypad for unit movement any more.

[alva]

So? I never use the keypad anyway

Seriously, do many people do use it?