Wonder "construction"

[LzPrst]

not a bad one for the oracle...
but I think a lot of the fun with wonders is that they are unique. if you remove that then you just have a big expensive city improvement. but I partly agree, certain wonders should become small wonders. also, there could be a certain number, ie you could build 3 pyramids total, so that 3 different civs could have them, thus certain small wonders, and maybe even some great ones, would be contested, though not unattainable just because someone else built it first. other wonders could be totally unique and some could be built by all civs. its not a too good idea, but I toss it out here anyway.

[lajzar]

One thing I don't like about wonders is wonders that grant free buildings. Instant construction doesn't sit right with me. And suggestions that this be replaced by free maintenance is simply unbalancing. Let's say you'd have a library for 400 turns of game time. That's free construction (80 shields) vs free maintenance (400 gold). Spread that over an empire, and it quickly becomes ridiculous.

As for multiple wonders of teh same kind, no thanks. However, I see nothing wrong with having a "Theban Pyramid", a "Mound Builders' Pyramid" and so on, as long as each had a slightly different effect.

Multiple wonders, coupled with boolean techs, could be an interesting idea.

One of the early techs would be to choose your cultural path. If you choose to research "Meso-American Philosophy", eventually, you'll have access to Blood Cult governments and one set of wonders, but certain ancient European and Far East wonders will be locked out, and vice versa if you choose "Far Eastern Philosophy" or "xxx Philosophy". Boolean tech trees can really make the game more interesting if properly developed. Which tech you choose might also affect the graphics for your people in city view.

I want a tech tree that cannot be maxed out because the rules won't allow it.




I'd suggest that having the relevant wonder would make construction costs trivial. Perhaps having a great wall wonder would make city walls cost 1/10 the normal cost to build. Any structures built this way should also have their sale value reduced to avoid a build and sell loophole.

[LzPrst]

I like the idea of an exclusive tech tree!

[Plotinus]

Exclusive tech tree should be the way to go. I have said before that each of the cultural groupings of civs should have its own tech tree - with a lot of overlap, to be sure - which could mean different units, buildings, even Wonders for each grouping in addition to those that are kept in common.

[Proserpine]

Originally posted by lajzar
But in real life, cities don't specialise. Certainly not to the extent that any sensible player would if that was made into a useful strategic element of the game.

Anyway, I think the max number of wonders per city coupled with the enforced no wonder buildings period in a city after finishing a wonder would go a long way towards ending wonder clustering.

Oh, but they do specialise. Think of Oxford (England) - University (i.e. Science), Cambridge - University and IT, and all the great "trading" cities (e.g. Hamburg, Venice, Amsterdam). Rome was almost entirely administrative (capital) by the end of the Punic Wars. For americans, Chicago is a classic trade city. Carthage, and especially Sparta were almost entirely devoted to the production of military units. Alexandria and whatever Mexico City was called before the Spanish (Tenochtitlan?) could be regarded as principally cultural in nature.

Oxford and Cambridge have been "science" cities for about 800 years.

There are big cities which have specialised very narrowly, e.g. Wool production (Norwich), cloth (Bruges) and so on.

[Proserpine]

Originally posted by lajzar
One thing I don't like about wonders is wonders that grant free buildings. Instant construction doesn't sit right with me. And suggestions that this be replaced by free maintenance is simply unbalancing. Let's say you'd have a library for 400 turns of game time. That's free construction (80 shields) vs free maintenance (400 gold). Spread that over an empire, and it quickly becomes ridiculous.

As for multiple wonders of teh same kind, no thanks. However, I see nothing wrong with having a "Theban Pyramid", a "Mound Builders' Pyramid" and so on, as long as each had a slightly different effect.

Multiple wonders, coupled with boolean techs, could be an interesting idea.

One of the early techs would be to choose your cultural path. If you choose to research "Meso-American Philosophy", eventually, you'll have access to Blood Cult governments and one set of wonders, but certain ancient European and Far East wonders will be locked out, and vice versa if you choose "Far Eastern Philosophy" or "xxx Philosophy". Boolean tech trees can really make the game more interesting if properly developed. Which tech you choose might also affect the graphics for your people in city view.

I want a tech tree that cannot be maxed out because the rules won't allow it.




I'd suggest that having the relevant wonder would make construction costs trivial. Perhaps having a great wall wonder would make city walls cost 1/10 the normal cost to build. Any structures built this way should also have their sale value reduced to avoid a build and sell loophole.

Don't we more or less have this in C3C?

[CiverDan]

I think the concept here is to Get wonders of the world by doing other things then building them in cities. A Few Examples: Should be considered, esp for wonders that are not phyical buidlings

Magellan's Expedition: Be the First to Circumnavigate the globe

Sun Tzu: Generate X elite units. Why are we building a Book?

Here is another idea. Make some wonders require Reseach, not shields. The Following wonders include

Seti Program
Leonardos Workshop
Theory of Evolution
Longevity
Manhatten Project
Cure for Cancer
Newton's University
Copernicus

Manhatten Project, Apollo, The Internet (sm. wonder) could require both shields and beakers

[Margim]

Mah, I'm going to defend wonders as they are. They aren't necessarily fully realistic, but I think in their present state they are part of the flavour that makes Civ a fun game.

Their effects aren't necessarily realistic, but they do add challenges and effects to the game that make them unique and attractive to get. They don't need to be realistic - as long as they don't get disproportianately powerful. I think the game keeps them fairly well balanced as is.

However, one thing I think might make it interesting in so far as a number of cities contributing to wonder production would be a 'divert' function that allows a city to send its shields directly (with a small percentage carved off) to a wonder building city that is connected via trade route. It'd be a decent compromise, I think.

[Arrian]

I'm sick and tired of the whole consept of competing to be the first civilisation to complete a wonder. I would like ALL wonders to be small wonders, so that you can build every wonder when it suits you.

I think I like this idea, as well as the idea of having some wonders be component builds.

-Arrian