What high-tech features should be in Civ 4?

[okblacke]

If I may grossly mangle Arthur Clarke, here:

Any sufficiently advanced technology that hard-SF readers have been swallowing for decades is indistinguishable from a technology that Civ players will swallow to get to Alpha Centuari.



An AC tech tree could go:

1. Hydrogen fusion
2. Hyper-magnetics
3. Magnetic shielding
4. Astro-navigation
5. Psychological profiling

Most could have civil/military uses as well.

We'll assume, for tradition's sake, that there's an earth-like planet orbiting AC.

I don't see why that wouldn't be acceptable.

[lajzar]

okblacke, that could work.

I'd still want the Mars colony wonder as a prerequisite somewhere along the line.

Whatever the case, the modern and near-future tech segments should be properly detailed, not the half-aased excuse that Civ3 has.

If I was actually good enough at Civ3 to spend a meaningful amount of time at the modern age, I'd be asking for my money back because that section was so badly designed.

[okblacke]

Originally posted by lajzar
I'd still want the Mars colony wonder as a prerequisite somewhere along the line.

But how would you incorporate that into the game? Maybe if it were abstracted, like a wonder-style development that was, itself, a prerequisite to a space victory. You can't go to Alpha Centauri successfully until you've built a successful Mars colony.

At the same time the Mars colony wouldn't be managed or attackable or productive, it would just be, perhaps, the research base for your AC project. (Though I suppose there could be counter-measures that might hinder or destroy research. Another good use for beefed-up espionage.)

Whatever the case, the modern and near-future tech segments should be properly detailed, not the half-aased excuse that Civ3 has.

I know it's fashionable around here, but I'm reluctant to cast stones at Civ 3's design. Having said that, I would agree that, in hindsight, the modern age seems somewhat flat. It almost seems a reaction against CTP-stype futurisms.

If I was actually good enough at Civ3 to spend a meaningful amount of time at the modern age, I'd be asking for my money back because that section was so badly designed.

I thought the really good players never made it past industrial.

[lajzar]

Originally posted by okblacke


But how would you incorporate that into the game? Maybe if it were abstracted, like a wonder-style development that was, itself, a prerequisite to a space victory. You can't go to Alpha Centauri successfully until you've built a successful Mars colony.

At the same time the Mars colony wouldn't be managed or attackable or productive, it would just be, perhaps, the research base for your AC project. (Though I suppose there could be counter-measures that might hinder or destroy research. Another good use for beefed-up espionage.)

I'd make the Mars colony a small wonder. Or at least, costing as much as a wonder would. Every civ can build one, it is a prerequisite to the AC victory, possibly a prereq for certain techs if we go for a detailed tech model. I wouldn't make it add to productivity in any way though. And I'd have the science bonus it represents merely be that it allows certain techs to be researched at all.

Essentially, we have certain AC-related techs have a particular city structure as a prereq instead of the traditional techs as a prereq.

I know it's fashionable around here, but I'm reluctant to cast stones at Civ 3's design. Having said that, I would agree that, in hindsight, the modern age seems somewhat flat. It almost seems a reaction against CTP-stype futurisms.

Perhaps it is a reaction to CTP. But it went too far. Of teh modern tech trees, Civ 2 did it best. CTP probably could have done it better if their design team had been more interested in breadth instead of length. They certainly put enough resources into developing a tech tree to have pulled it off very well had they chosen to do it broad.

I thought the really good players never made it past industrial.

That's because they kill off the comps fast. I find the comps kill me off fast. I could probably improve if I practice enough, but the overuse of 3D in Civ3 makes my non-3D-enhanced laptop computer go slow as toffee on a cold day.

Yeah, you can say get a desktop computer. But in my line of work, desktop computers are not practical - I move around too much. And laptops with 3D cards cost several small fortunes.

They should definitely make it possible to run Civ4 in a "graphically challenged" mode. That would mean no animations, and bitmap-based graphics for everything, basically civ2 level of graphics.

[Krum]

A Mars colony, I think it should be in, but not as a victory condition. Some kind of a SMAC-esque transcendence would be better. Or even better, a tunnel in space as inGreg Bear's Eon. You'd have to do the experiments at an asteroid in the belt, and the Marsian colony would be nessessary to get to the asteroids.

[lajzar]

Problem is, even there, Mars just isn't close enough to teh asteroids to be relevant. Guys, you all seem to forget one thing.

Space is BIG. I mean, it's really big. Using the best rocket technology we have, it would take a couple of years to reach the asteroid belt. Mars is useful as a stepping stone towards AC for two reasons:

- Proof of funtional life support habitats
- Proof of endurance rocket propulsion

But in terms of being a processing station for the asteroid belt, or a way station to reach an asteroid base, it is hopelessly out of position. Due to the different orbital periods, it is in fact particularly badly positioned if you want a halfway house to a specific asteroid within the belt.

Oh, there's another thing you guys forget. The asteroid belt is really really thin. If you were to sit in the middle of the asteroid belt, you wouldn't know it from the amount of asteroids there are. the total mass of teh asteroid belt is estimated at being about the same as the Earth, which would be equivalent to having a 1km diameter asteroid every few thousand km of belt. Star Wars had completely the wrong idea.

Plus, there is no evidence to suggest that there is anything special about the asteroids in either mineral content or in local physics. SF is good and entertaining, buts let's not allow our love of SF get in the way of known physical laws. If that Greg Bearian tunnel can be built in the asteroids, there is no particular reason why it couldn't be built on Mars, in Earth orbit, or even on the Earth itself.

[okblacke]

Originally posted by lajzar
Problem is, even there, Mars just isn't close enough to teh asteroids to be relevant. Guys, you all seem to forget one thing.

It's not that we don't know. It's that we don't care.

SF is good and entertaining, buts let's not allow our love of SF get in the way of known physical laws.

Conversely, let's not let known physical laws (which seem to be under constant revision ) interfere with a good game ending.

[Krum]

Originally posted by lajzar

Oh, there's another thing you guys forget. The asteroid belt is really really thin. If you were to sit in the middle of the asteroid belt, you wouldn't know it from the amount of asteroids there are. the total mass of teh asteroid belt is estimated at being about the same as the Earth, which would be equivalent to having a 1km diameter asteroid every few thousand km of belt. Star Wars had completely the wrong idea.

I know that very well, what does this have to do with my proposal?

Plus, there is no evidence to suggest that there is anything special about the asteroids in either mineral content or in local physics. SF is good and entertaining, buts let's not allow our love of SF get in the way of known physical laws. If that Greg Bearian tunnel can be built in the asteroids, there is no particular reason why it couldn't be built on Mars, in Earth orbit, or even on the Earth itself.

Actually, there are two reasons to do it on an asteroid. Fisrt, it's far away enough if anything goes horribly wrong, and second, you don't want the Earth or Mars going to a paralel universe spontaneously. That would kinda suck, I think... Anyway, I think you're right about Mars being useless, of course I know that the orbital periods are way off, but still, you could just wait for the right moment. It the belt is a lot further away than Mars though...

[Krum]

/me slaps his forehead

Phobos and Deimos!

[Optimizer]

Feels like there is little interest in the features from Call to Power, if one should dare to interpret this poll...

[lajzar]

I think with the CTP ideas, it is that their future history wasn't considered sound. I do think CTP had some excellent ideas regarding gameplay though.

[Kuciwalker]

An AI that takes advantage of hyperthreading like GalCiv's

[Optimizer]

What is hyperthreading?

[Panag]

hi ,


bio chemical warfare and sdi that works , ......

espionage true sats , etc , .....

let the plague be spread !


have a nice day

[Solver]

Hey Panag, welcome back! You've been away since November!