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  • Second (smaller) set of comments

    Second set of problems:

    1. My Enkindu Warrior is marked as "upgrades to swordman". But it has a cost of 10; Swordman has a cost of 40. I need to make a quick, one turn unit. But I can't make Enkidu Warror anymore, even though it's my unique, pride and joy of my nation.

    No problem, right? I can't build EW's, but what about regular W's? They don't upgrade, so they should still be available, right? Nope. I didn't get them when I could make EW's, and now that I can't make EW's I can't make W's either.

    I have no more quick one-turn build combat units.

    2. I have a city that can build Swordman and Spearman, one turn each. Swordman is much better than spearman. The city govenor decided to make a spearman instead.

    3. A new idea for turn based multiplayer. When it's not my turn, let me do anything I can do on my turn, including give orders to my units, EXCEPT actually moving them.

    Specifically, I'd like to be able to do the following:
    [ tab ] 1. Examine my units, and see their current orders (not currently possible)
    [ tab ] 2. Give them an order, even though they will not execute it immediately. (Not currently possible, even on my turn currently. If I try to select a unit that has already moved, to give it a new order for next turn, all I'm told is "This unit has already moved". I cannot give a new order to it now, even though it will not take effect; I have to wait until next turn, and remember what I wanted to do. That's extra time and effort on my part, and just makes the game more cumbersome, without adding to the play value.)
    [ tab ] [ tab ] In other words, I want to be able to select a unit that has no movement, and tell it what to do next turn, both on my current turn, AND IN BETWEEN MY TURNS WHILE SOMEONE ELSE HAS THE ACTIVE TURN.

    The benefits? This means that while other people are moving their units, I can be planning my strategy, and getting ready; on my turn, my planned units will move, and only then does my time counter start ticking for the remaining units that I need time to think about.

    Think about that for a second -- the time counter only runs AFTER moving the units with outstanding orders; no clock time elapses for moving the units with orders. I'd go even further: Do not run the clock during the graphical sequences (animations, etc) for units. Telling a worker to "R"oad, even if it's just hitting the "R" key, takes time for the animation. Again, think computers at the bottom of the required minimums.

    4. A potential bug, please verify that it does not occur:
    [ tab ] In timed multiplayer:
    [ tab ] If I have a bunch of units, some with orders, and some without, and a unit without an order is up first:
    [ tab ] [ tab ] If I do not move or skip past this unit, then do my units with orders move at all?
    [ tab ] [ tab ] If my entire turn is spent on city screens, and I never actually get to units, do my units with orders do nothing because I did not tell them "follow the orders you have already been given"?

    5. The "Shortage" indicator (not enough food) doesn't properly indicate what will be lost when a grainary is in place in a city.

    6. We have spcialists for money, happyness, science; we get specialists for shields and reduced corruption. Why not specialists for food? (agricultural specialists).

    7. If I have num lock turned on, then the numeric keypad moves units, and the arrow keys move the map. This is good, and useful. However, if I then hit home/end/pg up/pg down, then instead of moving the map on a diagonal, it moves the unit. That's bad -- inconsistent.

    8. I want to be able to work on multiple scientific items at once.

    Right now, you have the following:
    [ tab ] 1. A given nation can only work on one topic at a time, and
    [ tab ] 2. It takes a minimum amount of time to research that topic

    Which yeilds the rather silly idea that most scientists in a nation are unable to do anything. They can't research, publish, or anything, because only one topic can be worked on by all 250 million people, and nothing can happen faster than one discovery every 12 years (6 turns, end game) across all disciplines. That's silly. Just imagine if there was only one nobel prize every 12 years, instead of several every year.

    Put another way: You can have these 5 cities developing one tech, and those 5 cities, with a different label, developing a second tech; yet if you give all 10 cities the same label, suddenly they take twice as long because they can only work on one tech at a time.

    9. If the map is in zoom mode, and you right click on a square off near the right edge, you get the terain description on the left edge of the screen, not the right edge.

    This happens at a distance of 6 half-squares (3 full diamonds).

    10. I'd like to specify if city names appear in clean map mode.

    11. In zoomed mode, enemy cities in the bottom right corner of the map do not display their names and population.

    12. The "What happened at this city" notices go by very fast. I'd like to see them stay on the map.

    13. In negotiations, when the AI talks to you, they can either say "Please remove your troops", or "Your troops will move automatically". When you talk to the AI, you don't have that choice.

    14. In one game, I have a MPP with Egypt. Mycenae declared war on me. I went to talk to Egypt; my foreign advisor said they were still at peace with Mycenae. I wanted them to decalre war on Egypt, in support of the MPP. But as far as I could tell, there was no "Our mutual protection pact requires you to declare war on X" option on the initial screen, and trying for "Allience vs. the Mycenaeans" would cost me a world map, all my gold, and gold per turn (hmm, and we are into the last 17 turns...). (I managed to get it for just a world map and a per-turn amount. Cheap. World map wasn't worth much that late, nor was the discounted (interest/inflation rate) gold very expensive.)

    15. The shield bars are 10 down, and easy to count, but fill up across, making it hard to tell how many empty spaces are left.

    16. If I abandon a city, I should get a settler. Plain and simple, if everyone picks up and leaves, I should be able to settle down elsewhere.

  • #2
    Re: Second (smaller) set of comments

    Originally posted by keybounce
    Second set of problems:

    1. My Enkindu Warrior is marked as "upgrades to swordman". But it has a cost of 10; Swordman has a cost of 40. I need to make a quick, one turn unit. But I can't make Enkidu Warror anymore, even though it's my unique, pride and joy of my nation.

    No problem, right? I can't build EW's, but what about regular W's? They don't upgrade, so they should still be available, right? Nope. I didn't get them when I could make EW's, and now that I can't make EW's I can't make W's either.
    Warriors also upgrade to swords. Once you get iron you can't build them either.


    3. A new idea for turn based multiplayer. When it's not my turn, let me do anything I can do on my turn, including give orders to my units, EXCEPT actually moving them.
    This is great. LAN play on SMAC was like this, and it meant you could move all of your units on your turn, and tinker with producition and builds on "their" turn. It's great.

    I have varying opinions on your other comments, but not the time to address them now. Keep the ideas coming.

    Comment


    • #3
      civ 2 also had sam concept of doing all your micromanagment and city orders during others turns , then moving your units on your turn .

      also allowed for diploamcy to be conducted between turns too.
      GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71

      Comment


      • #4
        I like 3 and 12.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Second (smaller) set of comments

          Originally posted by keybounce
          I have no more quick one-turn build combat units.
          The fact that you can't produce obsolete units is explained by the clutter it would provoke late game. However, I thought Unique Units were available even after their obsolescence (admittedly, I only played a few Conquests games).
          In late game, there are already a ton of useless, old units, especially naval ones. They don't upgrade and don't get obsolete, which just fills production lists with useless clutter - imagine what it would look like if all obsolete units did appear this way.

          6. We have spcialists for money, happyness, science; we get specialists for shields and reduced corruption. Why not specialists for food? (agricultural specialists).

          Either they produce 2 food or less, making them useless (they produce less or as much as they eat), or they produce 3 food or more, that makes them overkill (they produce more than they eat, therefore they allow for unlimited population)

          13. In negotiations, when the AI talks to you, they can either say "Please remove your troops", or "Your troops will move automatically". When you talk to the AI, you don't have that choice.

          This is not a choice as much as something dictated by the context: when an isolated unit is in your territory, you can not make an ultimatum. But when a stack of units nears one of your cities, you can (and actually, you cannot gently demand their leave). The AI gets its options dictated just the same way.

          14. In one game, I have a MPP with Egypt. Mycenae declared war on me. I went to talk to Egypt; my foreign advisor said they were still at peace with Mycenae. I wanted them to decalre war on Egypt, in support of the MPP. But as far as I could tell, there was no "Our mutual protection pact requires you to declare war on X" option on the initial screen, and trying for "Allience vs. the Mycenaeans" would cost me a world map, all my gold, and gold per turn (hmm, and we are into the last 17 turns...). (I managed to get it for just a world map and a per-turn amount. Cheap. World map wasn't worth much that late, nor was the discounted (interest/inflation rate) gold very expensive.)

          MPPs are badly implemented in Civ3. You are forced to declare war when your ally suffers an attack on its territory. The decisive problem is not defensive war vs. offensive war, it is only about whether some fighting happens on your ally's territory (this includes recently conquered territory).
          Rather than paying the Egyptians, you could have waited for the Mycenians to attack you in your territory (or to counter attack you in a conquered city), and the Egyptians would have gone to war automatically, whether they wanted it or not.
          The idiotic implementation of MPPs in Civ3 make me suggest you to stay clear of them as much as possible, and to prefer good ol' alliances.

          16. If I abandon a city, I should get a settler. Plain and simple, if everyone picks up and leaves, I should be able to settle down elsewhere.
          You shouldn't: such a thing would make it very easy to clear jungle: settle, abandon, setlle on next tile, abandon, rinse, repeat.
          Jungles are supposedto be a bane until industrial age or so. Your suggestion would just eliminate this aspect of the game.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            MPPs are badly implemented in Civ3. You are forced to declare war when your ally suffers an attack on its territory. The decisive problem is not defensive war vs. offensive war, it is only about whether some fighting happens on your ally's territory (this includes recently conquered territory).
            That's why a new type of territory, "Occupied," should be created. Any land taken during a war is considered "occupied," until a peace agreement (or eradication of one side) makes the new borders legal.

            If I'm just trying to take back my own land that Spiffor invaded, then his MPPs don't trigger his allies to attack me.

            Comment


            • #7
              Obsoletion and Upgrading are seperate concepts. A unit should become obsolete when a better unit is available at the same price, or if an equal unit is available at a cheaper price. Just because unit X can upgrade to Y does not mean that X isn't of any value anymore.

              Don't forget: Smac allowed you to decide when a unit was obsolete; the game didn't decide for you.

              As to abandoning a city in the jungle: You should wind up with ruins in a jungle, just like you get ruins in hills, etc. Jungles should not be cleared just because you have a city there.

              Comment

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