Civ2 editor style or Civ3?

[DarkCloud]

Brent- I suppose you never purchased the Fantastic Worlds Expansion

and even the original game coudl be altered enormously!

You could alter EVERYTHING even without purchasing the expansion- the expansion merely included an editor that made changing things much easier.

Did you ever play Civ II?

[Brent]

I still have the Civilization 2 Multiplayer Gold edition on the computer I am using, which includes everything from Fantastic Worlds, right? I guess my deal is Civ 3 makes things easier than in Civ 2. Then, so far most of what I've done is add city names and a little bit of adding new civs. Come to think of it, I did those things in Civ 2 too. But I have plans to create new governments and maybe technologies, improvements, and such. I guess this was possible in Civ 2 too, but it looks easier in Civ 3, and the way Civ 3 does it is more appealing to me.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Brent- I suppose you never purchased the Fantastic Worlds Expansion

and even the original game coudl be altered enormously!

But not to half the extent to which we can modify C3.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by skywalker


But not to half the extent to which we can modify C3.

How can you back that up? The Civ 3 modding community, due to poor editor capabilities and the extreme difficulties in adding units and other graphics, is limited to tinkering with the rules and occasionally adding new governments that are hardly distinct from the current ones. And after only a few years it is already dwindling to just a few dedicated people.

The Civ 2 modding community is still going strong after all of these years. Scenarios in Civ 2 are almost limitless, in both concept and number. Detailed historical ones, creative fantasy ones. There are more Civ 2 projects going on in the forums than for Civ 3... even with Conquests out.

And everything you can modify in Civ 3 was open to modification in Civ 2, just via text files instead of a tabbed editor window.

All of this speaks to me as testament that Civ 2 was simply a better game to mod.

[Kuciwalker]

C2 had TWO scenario editing abilities that C3 did not: an extremely limited (though extremely useful) events system, and a bit more diplomacy editing. Because C3's editor has been built up in a series of patches and XP's, there hasn't been nearly as much time with a full scenario editor. WRT rules, C3 is infinitely more customizable. So much about units was hardcoded in C2, and virtually NOTHING is hardcoded in C3.

[Kuciwalker]

And everything you can modify in Civ 3 was open to modification in Civ 2, just via text files instead of a tabbed editor window.

Blatently false. Look at how much you can customize units and improvements and wonders and techs in C3. Look how much you can customize units and improvements and wonders and techs in C2. Things like barbarians, free tech, map trading, etc are ALL HARDCODED in C2 and ALL EDITABLE in C3.

[Brent]

store Civs each in a separate file. Be able to create separate halls of fame either for individual scenarios, for groups of them, or one for all scenarios.

[DarkCloud]

So much about units was hardcoded in C2, and virtually NOTHING is hardcoded in C3.

You obviously didn't understand how units worked-

You could even add 8-10 extra units and you could CHANGE EVERY UNIT in civ II!

and you could change their every stat. It would only take about 2-3 hours to change everything...

and every tech was modifiable!

and all the images were changeable!

all the terrain!

[Roman]

I definitely prefer the Civ II IN GAME editor to the Civ III one. Scenario creation was much easier in Civ II, since you played out the scenario creation. Customizability was also decent with rules.txt and other rules files allowing for substantial customization of almost everything. That is not to say that even more customizability is not desirable, but the editor should follow Civ IIs example and be in game!

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DarkCloud

You obviously didn't understand how units worked-

You could even add 8-10 extra units and you could CHANGE EVERY UNIT in civ II!

and you could change their every stat. It would only take about 2-3 hours to change everything...

and every tech was modifiable!

and all the images were changeable!

all the terrain!

WRONG WRONG WRONG

First, IIRC you could add THREE units. Though that's unimportant - the fact is, it was hardcoded. Yes, you could change their stats, but their were a LOT of hardcoded EFFECTS attached to various units (Musketmen did some weird stuff with making things obscelete, and the barbarian units were hardcoded, plus stuff about which units were horse units, as some 2-move units were immune to the pikeman bonus).

Every tech could be modified as to its cost, name, and the prereqs. However, there were special EFFECTS that were hardcoded to certain techs and the number of techs was hardcoded.

Terrain? I suggest you look in the Terrain tab on the C3 rules editor

The images are modifiable too, you know

And just to cinch it, look at improvements and wonders. Yup, they were SO more editable in C2 (name, cost, prereq, and upkeep IIRC).

[GodKing]

I would like a combo of both..... I used civ2 a lot, but without being able to do events, I never got into civ3 mod making.

[POTUS]

Originally posted by skywalker
Blatently false. Look at how much you can customize units and improvements and wonders and techs in C3. Look how much you can customize units and improvements and wonders and techs in C2. Things like barbarians, free tech, map trading, etc are ALL HARDCODED in C2 and ALL EDITABLE in C3.

Then, I must say Mr. skywlker, you have not played enough Civ 2, especially scenarios and have never hex-edited anything. What you said about the hard-coded items are there, just hard to find if you are just messing around. In MGE, 11 unit slots were empty. 22 in TOT, and 3 in vanilla Civ.

[Kuciwalker]

Are you saying you could edit improvement and wonder effects? And C3 has - guess what - an INFINITE number of open unit slots (ok, it's probably actually something like 2^32 or something ).