Civ2 editor style or Civ3?

[Jaguar]

There's a fundamental difference in how the Civ2 and Civ3 scenarios are created. Civ2 scenarios, for those that never played it, are made by editing a game in progress with cheat mode. For example, if you want to expend a unit's movement points, you can just click on it and press spacebar. The scenario editor was the civ2 exe, and scenario files and save files were virtually equivalent.

We all know how the civ3 editor works.

I think the civ2 editor works better for creating scenarios, because you could basically make any concievable starting position, but it's not as good for editing rules and stuff.

They should be hybridized somehow. Perhaps there should be a rules editor, and then you can load a rules file and make the scenario in a civ2 style editor.


Thoughts?

[Kuciwalker]

C3, definately. C2's editor was a pain.

[Kuciwalker]

I would like a C2 style editor included, but I also want a C3 one :greedy:

[LDiCesare]

We all know how the civ3 editor works.

I don't. Though I know how Civ2 and CtP2 editors work. Could you provide some details?

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by LDiCesare

I don't. Though I know how Civ2 and CtP2 editors work. Could you provide some details?

You have pretty expansive rule-editing abilities. However, when it comes to making the map, it feels a little limited. You can't set movement points, or how many sheilds a city has towards something, and a bunch of things like that. In Civ2 you were kind of playing the scenario while you set it up, so everything you could do in a game you could also do while creating a scenario. You aren't "playing" in the Civ3 editor.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by LDiCesare
I don't. Though I know how Civ2 and CtP2 editors work. Could you provide some details?

Almost everything is editable - it isn't like C2 where, for example, there were X wonders and Y units and Z techs, and each wonder's effect was hardcoded, and such. You can add almost anything, even (technically) veterency levels. You can change which units are barbarians, etc.

[Brent]

Forced to choose one, I choose 3. Otherwise, I want a hybrid as described by JW and Tass. I hated it when the game advanced against my will. To me, 3 is more functional than 2. It's much easier to create new civs, etc in 3. One thing I tried to do in 2 that I hope to try in 3 sometime, is an approximation of Chess. I know there are major things about it that would never work, but I still find it fun. I want it to be easier to get the chess units to keep from disbanding in their Chess starting positions.

[POTUS]

Both!!!

[Henrik]

Civ 2 as civ 3s doesnt really allow you to do anything. Civ 2's was simpler and allowed for more stuff to be done...
Obviously one could build on it though, all things with civ 3s editors weren't bad...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
A hybrid.

Civ3 for its simplicity,
Civ2 for it's functionality.

Depending on your point of view, C3's is FAR more functional. C2's is better at setting up units and stuff, but C3's is FAR better at modifying the rules.

[POTUS]

Yes, well, if you want to build just a scenario, Civ 2 works better. A modpack is easier with Civ 3.

[Henrik]

Did civ 3 let you change all in game dialouges? Civ 2 did and I must say it's most usefull when making scenarios (you can for instance use air units as something other than air units (some sort of ranged unit, in civ 2 this has been done for torpedos and cannon balls) and have the popups concerning them state things to support this illusion)...

[The Slayer]

As many said, both, I would like to see a Civ3 editor that when I finished it have a "test mode", so in the editor I can play that I just have created (in debug mode of course) without load Civ4.

And also, I would like to see a better managament of the internal errors and crashes of the game. Better saying, I dont want any crashes! , it could be nice to have in the test mode a "file/folder" detector that told us what folders or files are missing, and make us come back to the editor, without any crashes.

I think this crashes are the reason why many persons think it twice before venturing with modding or making scenarios.

[muxec]

First: Top-down editor (instead of isometry) will be much better.
Second: Ability to edit almost everything even in v1.0.
Third: Ability to give special racial traits.

[Brent]

From my point of view, C2 doesn't allow you to do anything. I guess what I like to do can be best labelled Modding.