Tweet
Originally posted by alva
There's no reason to do this Civ3 versus CtP thing imo, a waste of time.
There's no reason to do this Civ3 versus CtP thing imo, a waste of time.
-
i concur. ctp sucks. no need to argue."I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card -
Then stick to civ3 - after all it is the perfect gameOriginally posted by Uber KruX
i concur. ctp sucks. no need to argue.
Why even bother making changes.
Firaxis employee #1
''I have a great idea, lets get rid of the infinite Rail movement. That's a silly game rule.''
Firaxis employee #2
''Great we'll make that the centerpiece of civ4 - no need to do anything else. After all, civ3 was just about perfect anyhow.''
Sid
Cha-ching!!!!
In fact I have a better idea - every month, you can send a $40 check to Firaxis. That will save them the trouble of changing anything, and you can show your continued support to them.Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
exactly how many patches were released fot CTP?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God? - EpicurusComment
-
No argument there, although Activision's corporate problems, when CTP2 was released, were a lot deeper than concerns to release patches for a single game.
Too many comments made about this CTP/civ debate go like this.
Person 1
'I hate CTP - it sucks!
Person 2
'OK - Why?'
Person 1
'Unconventional units suck'
Person 2
'OK - What about unconventionals don't you like? Was it a good idea but poorly implimented. Was it unbalanced, and if so, would simply changing priority settings/cost/impact effect make it better?
Person 1
'I hate CTP and unconventional units - they suck!
and so on...No explanation as to why its a bad idea, or if there is an explanation, its usually based on preference and not elements of gameplay like strategy/tactics.
UberKrux sounds like he only wants minor tweaks - and is willing to continue to shell out $40-50 to Firaxis for those minor tweaks.
He's the ideal customer in a company's eyes. Minimum effort for maximum payout.Last edited by hexagonian; December 18, 2003, 16:36.Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
Agreed.What really sucks are "this or that sucks" postsComment
-
I have posted there before - every time a CTP/civ thread comes up. but the real answer is...Why even bother???Originally posted by skywalker
Still, I dare you - post in in the C3-General or C3-Conquests forum
This is the forum that will directly affect what gets on 'The List'Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
and so on...No explanation as to why its a bad idea, or if there is an explanation, its usually based on preference and not elements of gameplay like strategy/tactics.
MANY PEOPLE (I among them) have explained cogently why they are bad for gameplay reasons. They are unrealistic, gaudy, and/or bizarre. Oh no, a Lawyer is approaching my city! An abstracted espionage system is far more realistic. Why should an infiltrating "unit" take up as much space as a Tank division?Comment
-
I give credit to those who do take the time to explain, (and I'm glad that you have at least made the effort regarding stacked combat, because it forces me to reason through my own preferences - I still disagree with you, but at least I have a better understanding why you feel the way you do) but those who basically say 'it sucks' and then cannot explain the reasoning behind their statements or explain it with vague generalizations are wasting their breath.
In the same way, I hope you see my points about why I feel certain aspects work in the CTP series.
Face it, most gameplay issues are a matter of preference. I fully realize that I'm not going to change a die-hard on certain issues - in the same way I do not expect to be changed myself. But I want people to understand the 'why', and to basically expand their viewpoint beyond mere preference/bias.Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
I could write a book about all the 'unrealisms' in these types of games (infinite RR movement vs limited air/sea movement, the timeline not lining up with movement (it takes a year to move 1-3 spaces on an unroadded tile))...Originally posted by skywalker
They are unrealistic
These are preferences... (And I have posted in favor of unconventionals, but if you read my response on that thread, the tone of my post was basically uncommited - it certainly wasn't set in stone.)Originally posted by skywalker
gaudy, and/or bizarre.
Easy solution...unconventionals would not be part of the unit limit placed on a stack. So its not the basic concept, but the execution of the concept that would need to be tweaked.Originally posted by skywalker
Why should an infiltrating "unit" take up as much space as a Tank division?Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
You see, this is why civ3 people won't come here. As long as this forum will have its motto: "Let's base civ4 on ctp rather than civ3" the participation will be appalling at best.
Why don't you start a "ctp3 List" forum? I know I don't want Lawyers or Public Works or other stupid ideas, so I believe my participation to the civ4 list ends here."The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
--George Bernard Shaw
A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
--Woody AllenComment
-
I think its pretty clear that its far from CTP enthusiasts (the dozen active ones on Apolyton) are not the only people who think that many of the concepts introduced are good ideas. Bad implementation doesn't make them bad ideas necessarily. Thats pretty clear on the polls.
As for them being "stupid ideas", stupid is in the eye of the beholder.
I might say that having 300 workers towards the end of a civ game, is far more "stupid" than PW. PW scales seemlessly, workers don't... automation or otherwise.Comment
-
That's your right, I guess...though if you feel strongly enough about stuff that you want in civ4, you gotta speak your mind.Originally posted by Tiberius
...so I believe my participation to the civ4 list ends here.
So your silence (and others who feel strongly) may effectively kill implimentation of the ideas that you hold dearly concerning civ4. Anyway, it is ultimately up to Firaxis to put in new ideas - either the list will prove worthless, or it will spark something for them.
And if they end up keeping the additions conservative (slightly different than civ3), I have enough of a life so I won't lose any sleep over it.Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
...aisdhieort...dticcok...Comment
-
True... far more people want to see stacked combat in some form than we have CtP players here.
And it's also true that CtP implementation isn't perfect... but Firaxis surely can improve on the idea, if they take it over.Solver, WePlayCiv Co-Administrator
Contact: solver-at-weplayciv-dot-com
I can kill you whenever I please... but not today. - The Cigarette Smoking ManComment
-
Look. Ideas are ADDITIONS to the original game. It IS being based on Civ 3. However, we, the CtP collective, wish to see some CtP IDEAS that were good to be ADDED to the Civilization IV product IN ADDITION to the heart and soul of the Civilization genre. We are suggesting some things from CtP that were good ideas, but need improving, and that's why we are discussing them here.Originally posted by Tiberius
You see, this is why civ3 people won't come here. As long as this forum will have its motto: "Let's base civ4 on ctp rather than civ3" the participation will be appalling at best.
Why don't you start a "ctp3 List" forum? I know I don't want Lawyers or Public Works or other stupid ideas, so I believe my participation to the civ4 list ends here.
As Thomas Edison said, a good idea can only come from multiple bad ideas. Well, If we say "CtP sucks. I like Civ as it is.", what the hell would be the point of this effort if we just don't come up with some radical ideas from other games that could work for Civ. I didn't necessarily like GalCiv, or the workers system from Civ, but you don't see me, or any of the other CtP players posting in every thread saying "Civilization III sucks. GalCiv sucks." "Why?" "Because it was made by Infogreed. They suck. Sid Meier is a jackass". "What makes you think that?" "Civilization III sucks".
Please... grow up
Comment
-
I think its pretty clear that its far from CTP enthusiasts (the dozen active ones on Apolyton) are not the only people who think that many of the concepts introduced are good ideas. Bad implementation doesn't make them bad ideas necessarily. Thats pretty clear on the polls.
As for them being "stupid ideas", stupid is in the eye of the beholder.
I might say that having 300 workers towards the end of a civ game, is far more "stupid" than PW. PW scales seemlessly, workers don't... automation or otherwise.
I think that it can be established pretty objectively that a frigging Lawyer unit is pretty stupid.Comment
Comment