Defiantly Pro-Zeppelin

[Kuciwalker]

Unit Workshop = bad idea

Zeppelin = pointless

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by skywalker
Unit Workshop = bad idea

Zeppelin = pointless

why do you think that?

[FrostyBoy]

skywalker = without depth

[Skanky Burns]

As shown in the movie Zepplin, merely shooting a zepplin is not enough to destroy it.

To prove the concept, they had two balloons filled with hydrogen (and tied down under a net to prevent it from blowing away). From a very short range they shot one with a rifle. The hydrogen-filled balloon was now a hydrogen-filled balloon with two small holes where a bullet had passed through. It would still float, and would take a significant amount of time to deflate.

Of course, the incendiary bullet through the second balloon had the desired result, with that entire balloon suddenly ceasing to exist.

The point is that the zepplin was only made redundant due to technology - technology developed deliberately to destroy these ships that were a huge menace. Who is to say that things might have gone differently and the war was won due to zepplins?

A unit workshop would be great too.

[Trifna]

Snoopy, if we put ONE historically revisionist element into Civ, how do we know which ones to put and which ones not to?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sn00py
skywalker = without depth

skywalker = has explained his position before in multiple threads

[Inverse Icarus]

the incans used "air ships" (pretty much watermellon shaped baloons) for some reason which historians are debating.

[FrostyBoy]

Ok then Skywalker, explain why the unit workshop idea is a bad one in here, or provide a link. I'm interested to see what your arguements are.

[Kuciwalker]

The Unit Workshop is a wonderful idea.










































For SMAC, that is.

The Unit Workshop in SMAC creates units that fit perfectly into the atmosphere or context (sci-fi) of SMAC. When you are on a strange alien planet fighting Mind Worms, a Trained Chaos Dragon or a Sub Singularity Battleship don't sound too strange. However, the same system just doesn't fit for Civ. How many different "Jet Fighters" do you want? The thing is, only so many different combinations exist (and make sense) in the real world, and these are often so different as to not fit into a "Unit Workshop" system. The only things I can see even vaguely fitting in are foot units and MAYBE horse units. Even here, it doesn't make much sense - my Riflemen defend with their armor? My basic garrison unit should not be using a one-attack weapon (a Club, for example) and a 12-defense armor (Kevlar Body Armor). Plus, am I going to put the Kevlar Armor on my Tanks?

[FrostyBoy]

Of course you wouldn't put Kevlar Armor on tanks! Like I said, it has to be reasonable - it has to make sense.


Why should you not make a unit with a club and with Kevlar Body Armor? It would be very very cheap! (because you wouldn't have to pay a high price for the weapons, or need the tech). The disadvantage to this unit is that it's attack would be pointless against any units of that age.

I think what you will find is people creating many different units, specifically designed for certain battles. But I highly doubt people would create a very stupid unit as it would not benefit them. But I do think that the player should be ABLE to build any type of unit they wish to. (as long as it makes sense, SAM's can't go on aircrafts. Or Humans carrying Tank gun turrets).

[Kuciwalker]

Why should you not make a unit with a club and with Kevlar Body Armor? It would be very very cheap! (because you wouldn't have to pay a high price for the weapons, or need the tech). The disadvantage to this unit is that it's attack would be pointless against any units of that age.

It makes no sense at all. It's disadvantage should be that it's USELESS, just like it would be IRL. The way units work in C3 is perfect for Civ, because all of the untis make sense and there aren't "redundant" units. There is nothing to be gained from a unit workshop.

[Mr. President]

Zeppelins are fantastic. You could use them as scouts a la WarCraft II or as aerial caravans.

[FrostyBoy]

Originally posted by skywalker

Why should you not make a unit with a club and with Kevlar Body Armor? It would be very very cheap! (because you wouldn't have to pay a high price for the weapons, or need the tech). The disadvantage to this unit is that it's attack would be pointless against any units of that age.

It makes no sense at all. It's disadvantage should be that it's USELESS, just like it would be IRL. The way units work in C3 is perfect for Civ, because all of the untis make sense and there aren't "redundant" units. There is nothing to be gained from a unit workshop.

You still haven't explained in depth why it is useless. All you do is label the idea as something ridiculous. Your opinions are only speculations. You can't actually know whether the Unit Workshop idea is bad or not - not until a functioning Unit Workshop is in place and that's why I am attempting to do that.

You have a vision that the UW is bad, but you don't explain it enough, and what 'explainations' you have given, are hardly reasons at all, they're too empty.

My vision of the UW is good, and I have given reasons why it would be good, but neither what you or I, or anyone says, it doesn't prove anything, we need to see it in action. Give me some time, and we'll see who changes their mind.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Trifna
Since Civ is not EXACTLY history, I propose we get Moller cars , since we could have given some funds since the 80s and get flying car in 2003. Lasguns would make the game more FUN too.

Flying cars are dumb because planes are so much more fuel efficient.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sn00py
You still haven't explained in depth why it is useless. All you do is label the idea as something ridiculous. Your opinions are only speculations. You can't actually know whether the Unit Workshop idea is bad or not - not until a functioning Unit Workshop is in place and that's why I am attempting to do that.

You have a vision that the UW is bad, but you don't explain it enough, and what 'explainations' you have given, are hardly reasons at all, they're too empty.

My vision of the UW is good, and I have given reasons why it would be good, but neither what you or I, or anyone says, it doesn't prove anything, we need to see it in action. Give me some time, and we'll see who changes their mind.

The Unit Workshop adds the ability to "customize" units. THIS IS BAD. Let me explain why:

There are something like 32000 possible units in SMAC (I think that was the number on the box). Most of these are useless and redundant (from a strategic POV). However, there were many useful units (again, from a strategic POV) and the strangeness of them added to SMAC's atmospher.

IRL, there are only a (relatively) few combinations that are useful (still from this strategic POV). From a gameplay POV, the ability to create the useless and/or redundant units is itself useless - why would I want to be able to build a Kevlar-armored Warrior? (I think we can both agree that this units should NOT be useful ) The ability adds nothing to the game except the potential to be completely irrational. Any "useful" and realistic units are easily put in and balanced by Firaxis - leave it at that.