The List's organization

[DarkCloud]

For priorities, I could put different ideas in different colors...

[DarkCloud]

we should do it as the civ3 list

as a list of ideas

hear hear. jon miller- that's the best sort of idea

[DarkCloud]

Well, I was thinking that since this is going to be a monumental task, we'd have category managers for each category. The manager is responsible for his/her own thread - i.e. collecting ideas, and presenting them in a comprehensive format.

Good idea Asmodean- however, perhaps there should be an overall idea manager who edits all the sections and double-checks everything (so as to lessen the load on thread managers)... sort of an uber-editor... who could also highlight important things.

Example:

Red Text- MUST HAVE, and possible with existing tech.
Blue Text- Good idea, though ambitious
Black Text- It would be nice, but it could be overlooked if you [Firaxis] have to.

[Jon Miller]

who determines must have and the like?

all that sort of thing is different on a per person base

and remember that we here at apolyton are not length and breadth of the civiverse (so a poll cuoldn't decide things either)

Jon Miller

[DarkCloud]

If every site creates their own list then it'll be good enough.

and if not- then they should come to Apolyton and vote, or send thier own emails to firaxis.

as for what to list... if we list everythging and put the 'unlikely' things such as (Full 3D modeling of cities with little people walking around and giving advice during the game about what to do with each city,,, and of course you can walk among the buildings and look up and interact,etc) in gray or some other color denoting their non-necessity, then everyone will be satisfied.

Personally, I would like to omit idiotic ideas as they don't have anything to do with civ. If you give thread editors and the master editor, the threadmaster the power to determine what goes in and what goes out- I think that would work the best.

And if a poster has any problems, then a poll can be done. or he can petition Markos... or the threadmaster and thread managers.

[Jon Miller]

I still think that everything should be included

no matter how improbable you or anyone else thinks that it is

and remember, not all civers come to civ sites

Jon Miller

[Fosse]

I'm in Jon's boat on this one. We shouldn't have to tell Firaxis what is beyond their capabilities or what a good idea is.

I am all for the list being as organized as possible by catagories, and having polls like the current stacked vs. unit combat, and what have you. But I think that we will naturally rule out the poor ideas through discussion.

If I suggest that the first Civ 4 expansion pack be "Streets of Civlization" and that the player should be able to drive chariots or tanks (depending on tech!) around their empire... well... it doesn't have to be in grey text for Firaxis to know that it isn't what everybody wants.

I would support that a few people become editors of the list, who occasionally start threads with the topical headings (The List: Immigration, vol. 3) that summarize the debates and whatever consensus the previous discussions turn out.

But I don't want us to start excising one idea because it doesn't mesh with another. We should be the "brainstorm."

[Trifna]

We can go further than brainstorm and simply give an idea about how the Apolyton community gives importance to different ideas. Would it take anything out to show Firaxis what is higher on the Apolyton community wish-list? What is considered more/less crucial?

I see only advantages. And I do not personally see any reason to "omit" certain ideas, they'll only be in another color: white

[DarkCloud]

But I don't want us to start excising one idea because it doesn't mesh with another. We should be the "brainstorm."

As I said before, I don't believe in deleting the ideas, but when something is clearly not part of the civ spirit or is clearly only supproted by a few posters on the site, or is clearly not a really good idea (ex: Letz ha4e @ c0w un1t that anc1ent hunters can hunt and get f00d.) should be indicated in some manner that it is subpar.

however, as far as the summary suggestion, that would probably be best if combined with my suggestion about "ranking ideas"

The list threadmaster will summarize the discussions and the general consensus, then (s)he would list all the other ideas in differing colors under the summary and allow firaxis to make its decisions based upon that information.

[Fosse]

If people want to volunteer to go crazy with color then that's fine, as long as nobody expects average Joe List Poster to start ranking his ideas and coding them appropriatly. That sort of thing would simply discourage many posts who don't want to do it "incorrectly."

Personally, I think that simply having the different discussions in the different topics, with a volunteer providing semi-regular summaries of what the discussions have been, will be more than enough. I'm assuming, of course, that the volunteers would be balanced and include all important discussion points.

[DarkCloud]

Well, of course, I understand that Fosse... It's the threadmaster's job to sift through the ideas and signify ones at different levels... people can petition the threadmaster if htey have problems.

Indeed, I also agree that summaries should be included but IN ADDITION to the summaries, I still think that the colors are necessary so that all the ideas are mentioned and avaliable for Firaxis to peruse.

[Jon Miller]

I am extremely against color coding ideas

I don't think that we are representative of the average Civ player

I don't think that we know what is capable or what is neccesary

those are all things that Firaxis should handle

and are not our place

Jon Miller

[DarkCloud]

But we can make things easier for them by telling them what THIS community considers importatn... it's pretty obvious that we're one of the core groups of civ-players since we spend all our days talking about civ

we may not be the mass, market, however, I will acknowledge that- but that's marketing's problem... civ is seen as a wargame because it is a wargame/strategy game... it can never be mass-market in the way that an action game is unless word of mouth from the hardcore audience states that this is an "EASY TO USE, HARD TO MASTER, AND FUN GAME!" like the civ II phenomenon!

[Jon Miller]

I know a lot of mass market people who played and enjoyed Civ3

I knew even more who enjoyed Civ2

Civ is a massmarket phenomenum

and Firaxis must make something that they will want to play

MOO3s downfall was trying to follow the wishes of the people in their forums

I don't want Civ4 to follow it

Jon Miller

[Fosse]

Given the opinion of the people on the forums, I'd think that you'd be hard pressed to prove that Firaxis did what they wanted, but that's beside the point.

Having a managed list is fine, and if people want to label those ideas that are most appealing to the most people with color, fine. Just don't expect the average poster to have to compy. If thread editors are willing and able to objectivly organize such things then more power to them. Those of us who see no need for such things can simply continue to contribute as we have been since we found out about Civ 4's green light.