Civ 4 - the list of ideas for Firaxis

[Asmodean]

Well...we did one for Civ 3. Why not do one for Civ 4 as well. I know this is very early days, but I figure that once more and more people get involved, the project kinda grows on us. At least that's what happened last time.

So ideas...wishes whatever you've got. Let's hear it

Last time, we had the following categories:

AI
BORDERS
CHEATS
CITY IMPROVEMENTS
CIVILIZATIONS
Civ Mistakes
COMBAT
CUSTOMIZATION
DIPLOMACY
ECONOMICS/TRADE
GAME ATMOSPHERE
GRAPHICS
THE MANUAL/HELP FILES
MISCELLANEOUS/OTHER
MOVEMENT, SUPPLY, ETC.
MULTIPLAYER
PLAYER INTERFACE
RADICAL IDEAS
REGIONAL MENU AND CITY MENU IDEAS
RELIGION
SCENARIO/MAP EDITOR
SOCIAL ENGINEERING/GOVERNMENT
SPACE EXPLOITATION
TECHNOLOGY
TERRAIN AND TERRAIN IMPROVEMENTS
UNITS
WONDERS

I tentatively propose that we ammend this list with:

CULTURE
SCENARIO IDEAS
MODABILITY

Also, I figure this thread will do for now, at least untill we get organized. Then perhaps we can have a thread for every category, and if things really get wild, then perhaps an entire forum only for the list.

So guys. Post your ideas. I propose that you label your idea clearly, so that when we start organizing the individual threads, we can easily move ideas to the appropriate threads.

Originally posted by MarkG
for easier reading, please present your ideas in the following format

short up-to-10-words sentence giving the essence of the idea
single paragraph detailing the idea. be as concrete as possible, large ammounts of text are harder to read

Again...I know this is still very early days, but if we are to have any influence over the finished product, we have to start soon

Asmodean

[Shadow Dweller]

I'm hopeing they bring back a Relm/Zone of Controll. Hopefully the other nations wouldn't just waltz through my territory without so much as a "how-do-ya-do" IRL. Mabey this doesn't go for you entire ZoC, but for a certine amount of spaces around your cityat least...

[Solver]

Combat

Some generaly thoughts on combat. Overall, I would certainly prefer a combat system like in Call to Power. I know that many civ gamers agree here, and those who hate the CtP model basically just couldn't understand it.

The pros of CtP combat model are: it requires more thinking and planning, and it makes the random factor less of an importance.

CtP combat works in stacks. That is, if the city is defended by 5 Spearmen, and you are attacking it with 5 Swordsmen, then one battle takes place - with all 10 units in it. Likewise, if there's a single Rifleman standing somewhere, and you have 3 Cavalry near it, then all will shoot the Rifleman at once. This makes perfect sense. In Civ 3, it's possible to put a defensive unit on a mountain, and count on it to kill a good deal of enemy soldiers. This is ridicilous. My often used trick with naval invasions in Civ3 - find a tile with a defensive bonus, and drop 3-4 defensive units there. The AI will attack those with its nearby units, and you can count on each of your defenders to take 3 attackes with it, if not more.

In CtP, battles are harder because of this, and the unit classes. Some engage in melee battles, some are ranged. For instance, if you have a stack of 2 Swordsmen and 2 Archers, then, when you attack, they form two lines, with Swordsmen in front, and Archers in the back. Melee units fight each other and take damage, while the ranged line fires at those, taking no damage. Once the melee units (first line) are dead, then the second line is forced to step in the first line. Note that units that may have a very high ranged attack (like Artillery) still suck at melee combat. Artillery is no better at melee than a simple horseman - which, again, makes sense.

This approach makes attacking cities realistic. All of the defenders defend, not one by one. And attackers don't wait for a friend to die to attack. Of course, when attacking, you can select with how many and what units you attack - you may want to attack with 6 and leave another 6 back, although that's hardly a good idea.

Note that this combat system helps produce interesting results. The maximal stack size is 12, so the biggest battle includes 24 units. I have seen one 12 stack kill the other completely without losses, and I've seen 23 of 24 units die. If you have a strong defensive stack, and the enemy is attacking with an attacking one that isn't good enough, expect your stack to win. But, a battle of 24 evenly matched units is going to be close.

This also makes the battles more dynamic, as you watch the progress in a "battle view" window, showing the details of combat, lines changing, etc.

I'd be really happy to see the CtP syste included in Civ 4. It's realistic, it's tested, it works, and it produces good results. Even the source code of implementation is available for the Firaxis developers to look at.




That's just one of my many ideas so far .

[Asmodean]

REGIONAL MENU AND CITY MENU IDEAS

I would like to see the city model changed. As it is now, a city, once large enough, has 21 squares to extract food, production and trade from. And each of these squares has a "population point" allocated to work it. My idea is as follows:

Don't use population points in Civ 4. Use actual numbers. As in London has a population of 345,785 people. When creating military units, subtract the size of the unit from the pop. of the city. Allow players to set the size of settlers themselves. This would allow players to start a city with 1,000 or 10,000 people, depending on what the player feels is needed in the current game situation.

Do away with the idea that every square generates trade. Trade should depend not only on terrain, but also on population. Keep the food and shields concept. It's tried, tested and it works.

I would like to see production divided. The player should be able to set percentages in each city for production. So and so goes to city improvements. So and so goes to weaponry. So and so goes to public works.

Building city improvements should be as it is now. You decide on a project, and the city uses the production you have allocated in the city improvements pool to finish the product. How many turns this will take depends on a) Production requirement for the project b) Overall production potential for the city and c) How many procent of that you have allocated to city improvements.

For military, I would like to see that each unit in the game has a certain population requirement and a certain weaponry requirement. Whenever the player wishes to create a military unit, the required population would be subtracted from the population of the city. And the required weaponry (representing weapons, uniforms, back-up functions etc.) would be subtracted from the city's weaponry pool. If the weaponry pool does not currently contain sufficient weaponry, it would take a number of turns to create the unit. However if sufficient weaponry and population is available, the unit would be created instantly.

Public works I would like to see in the game for a number of reasons. First and foremost, it would do away with the armies of workers that we see in Civ 3. IMO the workers are too time consuming to manage, especially in the late game. The publiv works model is more elegant IMO. I would like to see a city specific version of the public works model. Have each city (as described above) allocate a percentage of production to public works, which the city can then use to improve the terrain around the city. For terrain improvements outside city areas, the empire should be able to draw on the PW pool of whatever city the player chooses.

Finally, I would like to see cities grow beyond the 21 squares. If the city is getting large, then the area that it impacts is also large. That's how it is in the real world, and that's how it should be in Civ.

Asmodean

[Adagio]

How about just copy/paste the old Civ3 wishlist?

[Asmodean]

Originally posted by ADG
How about just copy/paste the old Civ3 wishlist?

Too much time has passed. Furthermore, many ideas will be inspired by the changes to the series that Civ 3 introduced, so the old list is just that: Old

Asmodean

[Brundlefly]

Well, let me just put in a plug for a "land claim" feature as described in this other thread: here

[The diplomat]

I'd really like to see civ4 have civ traits based on player actions. For example, build x temples, gain the religious trait, build x barracks and you gain the militaristic trait. If you city improvements were destroyed and you fell under the limit, you would lose the trait. This would make civ traits very dynamic. Civs would gain and lose civ traits as the game progressed. You could start with militaristic/commercial, but maybe become agricultural/scientific later in the game.

[Japher]

The Diplomat: I like your idea. The thought of an adjusting, uh, structure like that would be interesting.


TERRAIN AND TERRAIN IMPROVEMENTS

Natural Wonders. Small percentage chance, when you build a town, that there is a natural wonder near-by. It would be cool to have them on the map, and you can build near it, but I think the map would have enough to deal with. Thus, just add it as a town/terrain function. Not sure what it would give, maybe culture points.

Natural Parks and Protective land. If you are going to be able to designate boarders it would also be cool to designate natural parks that could help combat pollution. This land could sacrifice shield bonus' for commerace.

[Jaguar]

Culture:

Sacked Capital Causes Severe Problems
When a civ's capital is taken, there should be more ramifications. There should be a great chance that a city the civ owns that is close to culture flipping will do so on that turn. Also, if a civ completely conquered another civ, then the conquered civ can come back if the capital is sacked. So for example, if Rome is sacked, the outer territories they conquered like England and Egypt will become their own civ again, even if they were completely knocked out of the game.

[Bonaparte]

I got an idea...why don't they make Civ 4 without any bugs!!!

[MarkG]

for easier reading, please present your ideas in the following format

short up-to-10-words sentence giving the essence of the idea
single paragraph detailing the idea. be as concrete as possible, large ammounts of text are harder to read

[dexters]

Provinces, each a unit, like a mini Civ, each with a capital, and each made up of cities, definable by the player, but it must be geographic in nature. Can't have provinces spread all over the place.

This, I've argued, can actually work to improve AI defenses since it can now recognize threat in chunks of cities/territory, rather than threats to one city. Also opens the door to civil wars, and perhaps civs splintering off.

There was a thread on this. If someone can find it, cool, if not, I'll find it this weekend.

[DarkCloud]

this link should work: http:home.att.net/~civgames/ideas.html

[DarkCloud]

And it does- there's the list that I compiled shortly after Civ III itself came out I'm quite proud of it feel free to add to it or to take things off it and make your own list