Civ 4 - the list of ideas for Firaxis

[FrostyBoy]

It will be very difficult for Firaxis to use most of these ideas, because imagine trying to use all of these ideas together in one game, it would seem like an impossible task.

I'm sure they will look at the ideas, but ultimately they will only pay attention to the ideas they can implement with what they already have.

What you should be doing this time round is trying to merge your ideas with each other's, try to come up with a funtional and basic Civ4, something that Firaxis could actually use and trust will work.

[Asmodean]

I see what you mean, Sn00py, but that would mean creating a design document that we can all agree on - truly a daunting task.

If we make a list of suggestions, all can participate, noone get left out, and Firaxis can pick and choose what they like, and feel they can fit into the project.

Asmodean

[Trifna]

Asmodean, Snoopy, People of the Jury,

I think this IS achievable by one way.
Instead of aiming to get something with what EVERYONE agrees, we simply make a document grouped perhaps in a few classes of ideas:
1- Green/Primary/***
2- Yellow/Sedundary/***
3- ...

Or put some colors on them if you prefer. Anyway, the goal would be to use polls to arrange this problem by knowing what is wanted BADLY, what is seen as trivial, what is just "something considered normal to see it in Civ IV", etc. This would of course necessitate a globally ORGANIZED set of polls with neutral questions.

[Jon Miller]

I think that we should make suggestions and say what we think we woudl like

no more

we shouldn't set out to design a game

they are the ones who know what they are capable of, and are the ones being paid to design the game (As well know a lot more about what is actual good gaming for everyone than a few of the poeple here)

as such we should just pass on suggestions of improvements that someone here thinks is a good idea

they can look at the list of improvments, and judge them for being good themselves

that shouldn't be our place

as such this should be a list of ideas, we are not trying to make a game here

Jon Miller

[DrGerry]

I have opened a thread in the Spanish forum to work in a list like this. Probably we will post here a summary at its moment.

We had already made a list several months ago and we are going to depurate it in the first place.

[Kuciwalker]

A simple request - events at least as powerful as in Civ2. That could go under several categories, like CUSTOMIZATION, RADICAL IDEAS (I'd prefer not ), SCENARIO/MAP EDITOR, SCENARIO IDEAS, or MODABILITY

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Solver
Flexible Movement Rates

Movement rates should change depending on map size. Suppose, in Civ 3 on standard map, your ships can reach the enemy in 3 turns. Makes sense, more or less. But, on a huge water map, it might take you 8 turns just for the invasion force to reach the enemy landmass, which is ridicilous.

Same applies for aircraft - a Bomber with the range of 8 is simply non-serious for Huge maps.

Solution: add a map size factor to Civ 4 when getting the movement points of aircraft/naval units.

I think, however, that it shouldn't be in direct proportion. Part of the reason you PLAY large maps is so that the distances are larger. So make it like, Small moves at .75x, Normal at 1x, Large at 1.25x, and Huge at 1.5x (you get the idea). So, even though Huge is, say, twice as large as Normal, it only has 50% extra movement rate.

[Brent]

Points for Exploration

Maybe this should be separate from wonders. One point for some number of squares for a landmass or water body. One point for each square for circumnavigating a landmass. A fixed number of points for circumnavigating the world and for exploring every square in the world.

Something like the above is a high priority for me.

Findable Features

SMAC did some things that I didn't know about for a while, probably some things I still don't know about.

Thie above is a low priority for me

Be Able to Do Things in Cities

Be able to search for a person or thing within a city. Have units that can wander the streets within a city. Be able to control battles within a city.

The above is a low priority for me.

Aircraft

I don't like aircraft in the game, at least not the way they worked in Civ2 (I have not used them in Civ3 so far). One option I would like would be for the game to end before the advent of aircraft. I liked Locusts of Chiron in SMAC, but not any other aircraft. I guess my "anti- aircraft" policy would work with just limiting the game eras, does Civ3 do that?

The above is a low to moderate priority for me.

Notes

Should we go back and indicate our levels of priority in our previous posts? Or did Trifna only mean coming to a concensus of priorities?

Cutting and Pasting Maps

I want to be able to cut a piece out of a large world map to create a smaller map of a smaller part of the world. I want to be able to increase the size of maps, like each original square becomes four squares, either all four exactly the same, or do something random.

The above is a high priority for me.

Languages

Should civs have trouble understanding each other at first? I would guess not.

The above is a low priority for me.

Playing Perpetual Nomads

I would like to be able to play the whole game wandering without building cities. I would like a wandering unsettled group to be able to increase in population and create military units.

The above is a moderate to high priority for me.

[problem_child]

My wishlist for Civ4 is simple, everything that Civ2, Civ3+PTW and SMACX had should be present, that means guerillas, partisans, the ability to negotiate commodities and resources, the ability to design new units, the ability to stack your units with other nations and base units in their cities, the ability to maintain protectorates and hegemonies, a more interesting espionage aspect, the ability to negotiate mining rights and pursue a rich and deep range of economic warfare strategems, and that the player this time represents a power ionside a nation that must compete not just with rival nations, but rival powers, thus allowing for civil-wars and powerstruggles within borders and all the interesting meta-games that that entails (like supporting rebel groups in other nations...) And religions and political theories should be significant, not just in a players nations, but in deciding who the enemy is (eg islam vs christianity, or capitalism vs communism).

There, I said it.

[Solver]

You can't get everyone to agree on even the simplest concepts. You can't get everyone to agree on units vs. stacks cobat. I'll never agree to tech research model changes (such as SMAC blind research). Others will never agree on future age. Etc.

The List is supposed to be a list of ideas, for Firaxis to review, and choose the best - and see what most people want. Like it was with Civ 3.

[Skanky Burns]

Tunnels and bridges.

Well, someone was going to mention them sooner or later.

[Brent]

Enlarging, Shrinking Maps

Be able to shrink a map, but how do you decide which terrain to keep?

The above is a low priority for me.

Scenarios

Vikings, with enjoyably playable Skraelings, separate Viking tribes, playable Europeans to defend themselves. Israelites settling Canaan, each tribe a separate civ but with a locked alliance. American Civil War or something with Yankees, Confederates, and Mormons if using Mormons wouldn't cause any problems. Possibly a race to explore every square should be a scenario. A scenario based on the separate Colonization game.

These scenarios are moderate to high priorities for me.

Playing Perpetual Nomads

Playable nomads should be able to build ships. Playable nomads should be a possibility, but should be able to build cities if they want. You can have some cities and also have nomads that can do the things I want.

The above is a high priority for me.

Waterless Maps

I want to be able to play on a landlocked map, but maybe this can be accomplished with impassable terrain.

The above is a moderate to high priority for me.

Ships

I want ships to work more like in Civ2, be able to attack the way they did in Civ2.

The above is a low priority for me.

Transports

Go along with being able to specify the number of human beings in a unit. Settlers should have to be small numbers to board a transport, but we can be a bit unrealistic, I guess one transport unit can be more than one ship.

The above is a low priority for me.

Palace

Definately a Palace instead of a throne room. Plenty of alternative choices. If a throne room, give alternative choices.

The above is a low priority for me.

Modes

Have modes to make the game more like previous installments in individual ways. City Radii. Civ2 style civilization traits. Graphics. Diplomacy. Trade?

The above is a moderate to high priority for me.

Internal Cultural Variation

Let regions within an Empire develop their own cultural variations. Based on different landmasses, proximity to other civs, separation by isthmuses, or each city have its own cultural distinctiveness. Settlers give cities they build similar culture to city that built the settler. Possibility of regional differences rebelling to establish independence or join rival civ. Things to do to keep regions happy, keep them under control. Based on real groups or not. "Colonies" differ between each other more than homeland, differences increase with distance from capital.

The above is a high priority for me.

Diplomacy

More options early in the game.

The above is a low to moderate priority for me.

[lord of the mark]

Im not sure i can even contribute, since i still dont have Civ3, and I have issues with the whole civ sub genre at this point, so I'll just a list a few pet issues.


Scenario desigin
one of the best things about Civ2 was the huge (and still lively) scenario building community. A Scenario editior with full scenario building tools, including events, complex triggers, etc seems to be a requirement,I think.

Trade
Bring back the Camel Seriously, the delivery of individual caravans, the dangers accomanying them, the use of caravans for exploration and making contact, was historically important. I realize that delivering large numbers of caravans got tedious in the late game, and that Civ3 seems to have done ok without camels, but is there not seem to work this in? Perhaps use camels, then trade routes after a give tech level achieved? While Civ3 abstracted this, Im not sure i want a game where combat is completely granular and other aspects of civ building are largely abstract (but then we're getting into my issues with the whole subgenre)

Civ specific traits
Well as some here may recall, i opposed that on historical and philosophical grounds. I havent been enough part of the Civ3 community to see if it has had the negative impacts on the community i feared - I do like the ideas for generating traits through Civ experiences.

[Brent]

Trailblazing

Units tend to follow paths already travelled. Over time roads automatically appear along these paths.

The above is a moderate to high priority for me.

City Names

The game should come with many more. Some Civs might have enough, but some civs should have at least three times as many. When you build a city, there should be a drop down box listing the built in names to choose from, with the option to enter one not listed. Names chosen by the computer should depend on terrain and location. Have names tagged for compass direction from capital, or center of landmass or empire or unclaimed territory. Tag names for coastal areas, mountains, forests, and nearby rival Civs. Tag names for proximity to capital, and have map size and potential growth affect tags, on a large map with other civs far away have a tag for the first few cities and the ones nearest to the capital. Have tags for home landmass and overseas.

The above is a high priority for me.

Startup Options

Be able to create an original civ as part of startup. Be able to choose ruler name, civ name, and civ attributes.

The above is a moderate priority for me.

Espionage

Should be less risky than in Civ3.

The above is a low priority for me.

Technology

Advances should be affected by the units you build and use.

The above is a low to moderate priority for me.

Customize Ruler Portrait

I guess there was something like this in CivNet? But make it sort of like the palace screen, be able to choose skin color, hair color, hair style, facial hair, headware, facial shape, caricature noses from ready made options

The above is a moderate to high priority for me.

[Fosse]

Brent: Absolutely on more city names! There is no excuse for EVER having a New Berlin!

I mentioned this before, but I'd just like to throw in one more reason for having two phase turns (i.e. an orders phase, then a simultaneous movement phase).

Three way battles! Or more! If you coordinate with another player to have both of your armies reach Rome in 750 AD, and they do, and there is a three way battle resolution... then that's cool as spit!

Other ideas...

More sandbox-y
Sometimes it feels to me that Civ is too much geared towards winning. But so much of history has just been about surviving, or internal affairs, or other goals. For me to be worried about being in a position to launch a spaceship 2000 years from now is a bit silly.

How to increase the Sand levels? More internal conflict. Give us more to worry about in the management of our civs. Not things like corruption or generic happieness. But what about various interests or parties to keep happy? An approval rating that matters could play into this, it'd be nice to conquer the iron supply of your neighbor, but the Church has a lot of power over the people, and they are for peace. So if you invade it might make some people mad.

Couple this with real reasons for unhappiness - instead of "I'm the second citizen in this city and we're on Emperor... I'm sad," such as lack of food sources, oppresive government... anything that makes sense. Now you have natural things to worry about in your Civilization, that if left unchecked could lead to rebellions, or rioting, or increased corruption. How about that... instead of an equation determining how corrupt a city is, have the ruling class' happiness factor in!

I'm going to cut this one here, and maybe have a more detailed approach in its own thread if people want to hear it (or if I just decide to anyhow).

What do you think about adding sand? It's a huge item on my list.

Mid Game name chagnes

This is little, but would be cool. What if whenever you change governments you get the option to rename yourself? The AI would have a Civ Name List that it would pick from in appropriate circumstances. So you might fight the Russian Democracy or the Soviet Communism. An American AI that switches to Democracy becomes the United States, and an England that manages to conquer a couple of nations starts calling itself the Commonwealth.

It's small, easy to do, takes no resources, and adds flavor.

As always, more to come...

Fosse