Need "land claim" feature in Civ3

[Twelvebottoms]

Originally posted by Andemagne
YEAH! borders should be negotiable.

I'm not sure about that. I think it would unbalance the game, powerful civs making unreasonable demands for land with resources etc.

[Trifna]

I think that the idea about claiming land as yours while you didn't occupated yet is great. But it would mean that the AI is able to see if it is worth declaring war for it. Like when you claim half the planet as yours :P

So does anyone know what an AI can do?

[Rubychaser]

I like the idea of land claims and border agreements. Could be great in Civ IV.

[Fake Boris]

Land claim is a great idea, but it would require a rethinking of some concepts.

Basically, there are too few civilizations and too much terrain.

There are hundreds of nations in the world. Even in the ancient times, all land was filled with something or someone.

Have a game with 100+ civs. At any given time, only, say, 15 of them would be considered "major powers" and have access to diplomatic benefits.

Major powers can land claim only on minor nation's territory, and in a certain era- the exploration era.

In the beginning, the struggle would be to become the most powerful city-state that collects tribute from other cities. Gradually, you could create a national identity. This should take centuries, just as it did with France, Germany, Japan or China.

Land claim obey to some historical conditions that must be reached in order to be possible. A nation must be strong and united, and the claimed territory must be inhabited by a backward people.
This is the kind of thing that could be easily integrated into the Clash of Civilizations concept (which is brilliant IMHO).

[DarkCloud]

There are hundreds of nations in the world. Even in the ancient times, all land was filled with something or someone.

Have a game with 100+ civs. At any given time, only, say, 15 of them would be considered "major powers" and have access to diplomatic benefits.

Major powers can land claim only on minor nation's territory, and in a certain era- the exploration era

Interesting idea and a good way to integrate 'minor civs' and ntaive tribes and barbarian tribes, Oncle Boris

Frankly, I can see this being implemented in a Europa Universalis sort of way with the native tribes existing in an area at peace with the settlers until a certain date or certain expansion point or until the military annoys them, and then the natives make war on the settlers.

If Civ Integrated ETHNIC GROUPS in the game, then this land claim thing and the game as a whole could rise to a new level of both strategy and simulation!

[Gangerolf]

I also would like to see borders subject to negotiations. I mean real-world-line-on-the-map-borders. I'm thinking Berlin conference 1884 here

[Trifna]

Really, I believe that the diplomacy system would need a face-lift. Diplomacy is more than just economic exchanges and wars. Diplomacy needs a bit more. And this could be part of this face-lift.

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Land claim is a great idea, but it would require a rethinking of some concepts.

Basically, there are too few civilizations and too much terrain.

There are hundreds of nations in the world. Even in the ancient times, all land was filled with something or someone.

Have a game with 100+ civs. At any given time, only, say, 15 of them would be considered "major powers" and have access to diplomatic benefits.

Major powers can land claim only on minor nation's territory, and in a certain era- the exploration era.

In the beginning, the struggle would be to become the most powerful city-state that collects tribute from other cities. Gradually, you could create a national identity. This should take centuries, just as it did with France, Germany, Japan or China.

Land claim obey to some historical conditions that must be reached in order to be possible. A nation must be strong and united, and the claimed territory must be inhabited by a backward people.
This is the kind of thing that could be easily integrated into the Clash of Civilizations concept (which is brilliant IMHO).

This sounds like a great concept for a scenario. However, I'm looking for something that not only makes sense both historically and within the current game (like both of our ideas) but also can be easily implemented (like my idea). The AI can barely handle 16 civs plus barbarians now, I can't imagine it dealing with 100+ civs properly. I imagine a huge lag in between turns in such a game. My approach may be crude as far as dealing with land claim and borders but it is a good foundation from which to build on this idea.

The game has something similar to what you describe already: the minor barbarian tribes in the game are sometimes assimilated when a goody hut reveals a settler to you.

[DarkCloud]

The AI can barely handle 16 civs plus barbarians now, I can't imagine it dealing with 100+ civs properly

Computers will be up to 10 GhZ by 2008... I think that the technical requirements coud probaly be pushed up to 32 civs without too much fear, unless the ram is a problem... but even that has been pushed in to the GHz.

[Locutus]

CtP1 could easily handle 32 civs in 1999, Civ3 not being able to deal with less is just poor programming...

[orange]

I argued quite a bit for this feature a few years ago for Civ 3...still think it would be a good idea I think it would be even better though if it took a while to do...not just in a turn...or if tiles are smaller (maps much bigger)

Could be performed by settler/colonist units?

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by orange

Could be performed by settler/colonist units?

I think a claim could be made by any unit, but if that claim overlaps another civ's landclaim, a popup window will remind you that settling in your landclaim will cause war with the other civ.

[orange]

eh, i don't know if I like the idea of any unit being able to claim land. What about only for certain non combat units like explorers and settlers? Otherwise, you could just plop down a bunch of defensive units around an enemy capital and claim their land. I don't think I'd want to have to reclaim land every time a nation invaded me.

[Jon Miller]

I think that for this to work there should be two things

claimed land and acutal land

Jon Miller

[Brundlefly]

Originally posted by orange
eh, i don't know if I like the idea of any unit being able to claim land. What about only for certain non combat units like explorers and settlers? Otherwise, you could just plop down a bunch of defensive units around an enemy capital and claim their land. I don't think I'd want to have to reclaim land every time a nation invaded me.

Well, if every civ had a scout unit then I would say yes, this is a good idea, but not every civ has a scout unit. By the time explorers appear, chances are your civ's expansion phase is almost over. If you are cranking out settlers fast enough to settle wherever you want then landclaims would not even be necessary, right? I think that any unit should be allowed to claim land in the name of its civ. Whether the civ will actually settle there is another matter.

As far as your scenario of defensive units around an enemy capital, this is the reason why I said landclaims should be limited to 3 active at any time with every landclaim expiring within 10 turns. And that it is also the reason why I said that landclaims are the only areas on the map where you may settle with your settlers. So if you want to use your landclaims to restrict AI settlement, you won't be settling any new cities yourself.