[BtS Mod] WOLFSHANZE MOD (Industrial Age & Naval)

[AllRoundGoodEgg]

Yes indeed. But it's no better.

I mean, Civ IV is showing it as the loaded mod, so that's good. It just isn't making any changes, which is weird.

Thanks for trying to help, Wolfshanze. I appreciate it because I'd love to play with your mod.

[ladiesman]

I had a problem similar to this......make sure you don't have the mod in BOTH the program files and my documents locations. If it is, it seems to cause problems.

[AllRoundGoodEgg]

I've just checked... the My Docs setup is clear - no sign of the mod there :-(

[AllRoundGoodEgg]

Okay, so the straight Wolfshanze doesn't seem to work, but the WolfRevolution pack implements it just fine. Which is a relief.

When I got it running, I noticed that Germany gets many unique units, China has three (though the Halberd is just a same-stat reskin of the Axeman right?), America has two, and the rest get one like before. How is that balanced out... what's the downside to playing Germany to balance out their multiple superior units?

[wodan11]

As Wolf will tell you, for almost all of the units, they don't have any different stats than their "normal" counterpart. They just have a different name and unit graphics. It adds a great deal of flavor but does not cause any balance problem as you are assuming.

[Xeno426]

Originally posted by wodan11
As Wolf will tell you, for almost all of the units, they don't have any different stats than their "normal" counterpart. They just have a different name and unit graphics. It adds a great deal of flavor but does not cause any balance problem as you are assuming.

The only exceptions are small. The special jet bombers for Russian and America have an extra two range, the two unique tanks for Germany split the original Panzer unit's bonus between the two of them, the Longboat for the Vikings (soon to be Scanindavia) is slightly more capable, but not game-breakingly so.

[ladiesman]

I personally like some civs having a few more.....makes it more realistic. Some civs HAVE in real life excelled at certain things.

[Wolfshanze]

All of the above... everyone is right... most of the "new" UU's don't do anything different other then a name and/or graphic over the base unit... and yes, there are a few civs that have more then one UU stat-wise, but none of them are game-breakers, and I've never heard of anyone saying "Gee, I would have won outright, but the other civ had one more UU then I did, and because he had an extra point of range or movement on one unit class, I completely lost my game".

None of the UUs are game-breakers on their own... countries like Germany are often singled-out by new folks to the Wolfshanze Mod has having "five UU's" or something of that sort, but the reality is, most don't do anything special, and those that do (especially for Germany) are closer to being rather lame bonuses then game-winners.

[AllRoundGoodEgg]

Don't get me wrong - I like the variety too. I just was surprised that Germany has so many compared to others. It may not be a game breaker, but psychologically, in game design terms, why did they get so much attention? Their UB is amazing though... wow!

As for the others, I think the only one to get much more powerful is the vikings - the ability to send units two units into ocean that early in the game is a major bonus on island maps (as Carrack owners have found before - though this happens even earlier). On its own the 'berserker' was pretty powerful I found, so having the two is a major boost. Since they have a weak UB, that's no bad thing perhaps, but a surprise.

If anything I'd have liked to have seen more UUs with smaller benefits because I like that kind of differentiation. So don't misunderstand my original question - I didn't mean to sound like I wasn't happy. Just a little surprised by the design philosophy.

By the way Wolf, you haven't answered my question about the artist - who painted the dreadnaughts image for you? I might have some work for him, so again I'm asking in a good way.

[Wolfshanze]

Originally posted by AllRoundGoodEgg
Don't get me wrong - I like the variety too. I just was surprised that Germany has so many compared to others. It may not be a game breaker, but psychologically, in game design terms, why did they get so much attention? Their UB is amazing though... wow!

You don't win or lose because of "psychological" reasons. If Germany had one UU or fifty, it doesn't matter if 99% of the UU's are 100% identical statistically with the unit it replaces, as-is the case with the German UUs. It's just a name-thing for Germany, not much of anything else with the UUs.

In default BtS, the Panzer gets a 50% bonus against other tanks, in the Wolfshanze mod the two Panzers each get a 35% bonus (and both appear and function almost identically), so it's almost a loss, not a gain in UU ability for Germany. The German UB was beefed because the default UB was almost totally worthless and it does beef-up a rather weak UU, so in the end, I think Germany is fairly well balanced, but certainly not overly powerful in any way, shape or form.

As for other nations and their UUs, I really don't care if nation-x is a little stronger then nation-y... none of them are VASTLY superior to the others, and I really don't think any of the civs have a UU that cannot be overcome. I care more about the "flavor" of the UU complementing it's mother civ then how many UU's a civ may have.

[AllRoundGoodEgg]

Okay, that's cool. Like I say, I'm loving what you've done and I wasn't having a pop at you or anything like that. Mostly, just interested in your design philosophy.

Anyway, thanks for all the hard work.

[Ninja]

Originally posted by AllRoundGoodEgg
As for the others, I think the only one to get much more powerful is the vikings - the ability to send units two units into ocean that early in the game is a major bonus on island maps (as Carrack owners have found before - though this happens even earlier). On its own the 'berserker' was pretty powerful I found, so having the two is a major boost. Since they have a weak UB, that's no bad thing perhaps, but a surprise.

Actually, their UB complements the longboat. With the longboats +1 movement, you have a good shot to circumnavigate and gain another +1. And Ragnar is Financial, which gives +1 commerce in coastals. So if you're playing a water map, Vikings are definitely well off.

[Wolfshanze]

I never play as the Vikings and have no-problem what-so-ever playing against the Vikings.

If anyone loses the game to the AI Vikings and wants to blame it on the UU/UB, then personally, I think you need to step-up your game rather then finding excuses as to why you lost.

[wodan11]

Personally, I have absolutely no problem with Germany getting a lot of "attention".

The logical extension to this argument is for civs who did little to add to world culture or world events to have equal attention.

Sorry, but I don't really need or want for someone to go out of their way to create a bunch of Khmer graphics.

Much nicer are cool things like graphics for Brit battlewagons like the Hood, or the Bismark (German), or land units that had more of an impact.

Now, if somebody really likes the Khmers, and makes graphics for them which are good quality, and otherwise would not be spending their time (i.e., it's the Khmers or nothing), then sure let's have the graphics with our thanks.

Just me.

[wodan11]

Saw a special on the Military Channel yesterday with the top 10 ship classes of all time. Was pretty fascinating. Had the Hood, Bismark, pocket battleships, etc.