Map Assistance Urgently Sought

[Gatekeeper]

Everyone:

First of all, thanks for taking the time to open this thread!

This is the situation I'm facing: I am attempting to modify an 18-civ Earth WorldBuilder save from vanilla Civ IV so it is playable as a 24-civ Earth map in Warlords. To this effect, I have undertaken the following actions:

1. I took a file labeled "EarthMap.Civ4WorldBuilderSave" and changed its suffix so it now reads "EarthMap.CivWarlordsWBSave." It now appears as a playable map in Warlords, so we're good so far.

2. I then generated a random map in Warlords in an effort to get information on the six new civilizations. Going into WB, I saved this map as "Experiment1.CivWarlordsWBSave".

3. Using TextEdit, I opened both the XML files for these maps, with the intent of copying data from the native Warlords map into the imported Warlords map. This is where the problems start.

4. I noticed that in the Warlords-native map, civilizations had anywhere from two to four starting technologies. In the imported Warlords map (which was originally a vanilla Civ IV WB save), the 18 civilizations all had *two* starting techs apiece. So, which is correct? Do I need to replace all of the vCiv IV civ data with the Warlords civ data? If so, that might be a bit time consuming.

5. Assuming No. 4 goes well, I then have the predicament of having six new civilizations w/o proper starting coordinates on Earth. IOW, they won't show up in their historical starting locations. How do I go about fixing this? Do I simply generate a 24-civ game from this map, then immediately go into WB and shift the Celts, Carthaginians, Ottomans, Koreans, Zulus and Vikings to their right spots, save as a WB file and close out of the game?

6. Upon relaunching Warlords, do so with a clean cache so when it loads the 24-civ Earth map, it will display all the civs in their proper historical starting locations?

7. If I do this, and later play a game as, say, the Celts, will the map be "revealed" not only in their historical starting location, but the random location as well, where they first appeared prior to me moving them to the "right" spot?

Any insights into this would be most appreciated!

Gatekeeper

[Dale]

At point 4, it doesn't matter how many techs each civ has, as long as they exist in Civ4TechInfos.xml

Before doing step 5, you need to download the 24-civ Warlords DLL file. Standard Warlords still only allows 18 civs. Thus the need for the 24-civ file.

But yes, go into the WorldBuilder and do as you said, move the starting units. BTW, when you start this setup, make sure you are player 1.

If you need help with the WorldBuilder (including how to turn on and off reveal tiles) read this: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=140519

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

Regarding No. 4, if I copy over the Warlords data into the imported map, won't it give civilizations with three or four starting techs an unfair advantage over the ones with two starting techs? Or does the program automatically generate this at the start of each new game from the Civ4TechInfos.xml file, regardless of what the map XML file contains?

As for No. 5, I think I just thought of a novel way to get all six new civs in a game: Simply choose "custom game" from the menu, and make sure the six new civs are selected to appear in said game. Then, go into WB from that game, save the map as another experiment, and transfer the relevant data to the imported 18-civ map. Or, if that doesn't, work, what's the Intel Mac equivalent of the Warlords DLL file?

Oh, and yes, I always am player No. 1 when messing around with this stuff. And thanks for the link!

Gatekeeper

P.S. I have a WB file called "TWC_Earth_256x128_v0.03.Civ4WorldBuilderSave" — and, as you can tell, it's a *gigantic* Earth map. What I'd like to do is turn it into a map of just the northern hemisphere (i.e., cut it off below the equator). Is there anyway I can do this in the WB XML file by, say, changing its X and Y dimensions?

[Gatekeeper]

Dale, et al.:

Hmm. OK, I just went into my 18-civ WB save and added in the six new civilizations (Nos. 18-23). However, when I launched Warlords and selected the map for play, only the first 18 civilizations showed up. The other six were nowhere to be found.

I'm assuming there's an 18-civ limit hard-coded into Civ IV somewhere? I looked in the .ini file and couldn't find it there. If this is the case, am I sh*t out of luck for the time being since SDK has yet to be released for the Macintosh version of Civ IV Warlords/Vanilla?

Gatekeeper

[Dale]

You're on a mac? sorry, you won't be able to play > 18 civs.

Macs do not have the equivalent of the PC DLL file. As the Civ4 SDK is the source code for the DLL file (PC only) and number of civs is set in the DLL file (CvDefines.h::MAX_NUM_CIVS) then you are always limited to 18 civs.

Unless they release an SDK equivalent for the mac (my guess is not going to happen).

Sorry buddy.

As for your other questions:

Regarding No. 4, if I copy over the Warlords data into the imported map, won't it give civilizations with three or four starting techs an unfair advantage over the ones with two starting techs? Or does the program automatically generate this at the start of each new game from the Civ4TechInfos.xml file, regardless of what the map XML file contains?

You can just delete the extra techs you don't want them to have (or add techs to the other players).

As for No. 5, I think I just thought of a novel way to get all six new civs in a game: Simply choose "custom game" from the menu, and make sure the six new civs are selected to appear in said game. Then, go into WB from that game, save the map as another experiment, and transfer the relevant data to the imported 18-civ map.

That'll work, but as I mentioned above, civs 19-> won't show as macs can't use the 24-civ DLL file.

P.S. I have a WB file called "TWC_Earth_256x128_v0.03.Civ4WorldBuilderSave" — and, as you can tell, it's a *gigantic* Earth map. What I'd like to do is turn it into a map of just the northern hemisphere (i.e., cut it off below the equator). Is there anyway I can do this in the WB XML file by, say, changing its X and Y dimensions?

Not easily. If you change the map X/Y sizes, you need to delete (/add if required) the plot definitions outside of that range.

Believe me from experience, it's a VERY time consuming job.

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

WRT the 18-civ vs. 24-civ situation ... well, it sucks to a degree, but I'll get over it. Besides, I don't think it's been ruled out that SDK *isn't* coming to the Macintosh version.

Now, here's another theory regarding the super-sized Earth map: If I launch a game in that map, go into WB, and then proceed to turn every square below the equator into ocean (or some other useless terrain), then do a "save as," it shouldn't be too hard to examine the map's XML file afterward and delete all the ocean plot definitions that appear to be grouped together, line after line, correct?

Gatekeeper

[Dale]

You'll want to do above the equater.

The map origin (0,0) is bottom-left. The map extreme (x,y) [x = width, y = height] is top-right.

But yes, should be easier to do a search and destroy with that.

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

That, or I could just offer to pay someone cold, hard cash to do a nice "Northern Hemisphere" map for me, like the one that a Civ II modder made back in the late 1990s. That map was, hands down, one of the best Civ maps *ever!* Sadly, it hasn't been made for Civ IV.

OK, time for some more irritating, wannabe-modder questions: The map origin (0,0) you speak of in the bottom left, is this the same for every map? And is this different from the X,Y coordinate system? If so, how? The map extreme (X,Y ... with X equaling width, Y equaling height) is in the top-right of any given map, correct? Or are the map origin/map extreme in one spot (bottom-left), with the zeros representing the X (width) and the Y (height)?

And if a map wraps, how can one ever figure out where these places are, since the coordinate system isn't visible in WorldBuilder (gods, how I miss Civ II sometimes)?

Gatekeeper

P.S. Oh, and why above the equator? How far? One line, two lines? I eyeballed it on the map after looking at an atlas ...

[Dale]

In the WBS file, plot definition (0,0) is the bottom-left tile. In sequential order (0,1) is the plot above it on the map. (0,2) the one above that. Plot (1,0) is the plot to the right of the origin point. And so on to the map width and map height.

Now, here's a little trick I use to find the origin. Open the ini file and make CheatCode = chipotle (it currently says CheatCode = 0). Then when in the map press CTRL-Z. Now if you hold the shift key down, it'll list the plot number in the info to the left of screen (where it normally lists the units on the plot). That'll help you find the origin. (BTW, I'm not sure if this works on a mac version).

And you're right. You want to delete the southern hemisphere (which pisses me off since I'm from the deep south). This'll make your work hard. Why? Because you'll have to re-assign the height co-ordinate of EVERY tile you're keeping. That's a complete pain in the ass to do.

Good luck.

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

I have but one word to say: YIKES! (That's a Yank expression for shock, usually in a loud voice and with an astounded look on the face.)

Heck, it almost sounds like it'd be easier to either find a good Civ IV modder (that's a hint, Dale) and pay to have a map made, or to find a good atlas and find a way to scan it (which would require a scanner on my part and, presumably, other, non-Civ related, software).

Hmm. Well, I'll see what I can do in the meantime. I'm especially going to try the shortcut you mentioned.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

Sadly, the key combination shortcut didn't work. For some reason, I'm not the least bit surprised. More and more, it's apparent that Mac modders do face handicaps.

You know another thing I miss from Civ II? Automatic resource allocation. You'd simply type in a random number (or set it to "1" or "0"), and resource placement was done. Yeah, it might not be "historically" accurate, but I bet cold, hard cash that 90 percent of Civ II players didn't give a rat's patootie about that.

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

I'm Utterly Lost ...

Dale, et al.:

I've added in the civilization information for the Celts, Carthaginians, Ottomans and Vikings into the XML map file. This data was copied over from the XML file of a randomly generated map that had only those four civilizations on it, so there would be an easy way to get the aforementioned information.

Needless to say, the settlers for these four civs didn't show up in their historical starting locations after putting their information into the XML file for the Europe map. So I went into WB, hunted down their settlers, deleted them, then put new settlers in these nations' correct starting spots. I then saved the WB file.

Here's the problem: When I went into the XML file, it still showed the *old* and *random* start locations for these four civs, *not* the correct X,Y coordinates for their correct locations. How the hell can I get around this? The Europe map plays fine — with all nations in their correct starting spots — so long as I load with cached XML. But the moment I load Civ IV and go with uncached XML, it falls back on the damn random coordinates for these four civs.

How in God's name can I get the XML file to update with the historically accurate coordinates? I tried to "save as" and then manually enter the coordinates, but *both* Europe map XML files showed the same random coordinates. I thought that if I did a "save as," that version would show up with the "right" coordinates. But, no, it isn't working.

I'm missing a step somewhere, somehow. And what's really infuriating is that, when I first bought vanilla Civ IV, I *knew* how to get around this coordinate issue ... but now I don't. Crap! Crap! Crap! That's the last time I take four months off from playing a Civ game.

So, how do I get the damn XML file to display the correct starting coordinates, rather than the random ones from the throw-away map I generated?

Gatekeeper

[Gatekeeper]

Well, I'm not quite sure how I did it (or why it worked this time, when it didn't the last time), but the Celts, Vikings, Carthaginians and Ottomans are now showing up in their proper start locations, even if the XML cache has been cleared from a previous session.

Sleep. That's what I'll do now. Sleep. They say it's good for permanently encoding new (or revived) memories into one's brain.

Gatekeeper

[Dale]

Great to hear you finally got there.

Oh, and as for your hint, I actually don't have time at the moment. You may notice I haven't published a mod for months. There's a reason for it.

And no, I can't say.

[Gatekeeper]

Dale:

That's fine. Just thought it wouldn't hurt to inquire with one of the most well-regarded modders in Civilization history. You've built a reputation that will "stand the test of time!"

Gatekeeper