Mod idea for rjwoer: Drug Trade

[greenday_234]

I would have simply put this suggestion under rj's current resource mod forum however i didn't want hijack the thread either.
My mod idea basically consists of adding drugs into the game trade. Despite the moral difficulties that drugs represent among society they are very much apart of everyday life in civilizations. Obvisiously Firaxis could not add this to the game for clear reasons however I think if we mod the game and add them ourselves it brings a new reality element to the game play. Here are my suggestions for new luxury resources:

Marijuana:
would add to happiness and commerce but would deduct a bit from health and maybe we could make an attempt too at reducing productivity. Has a medium desirablity on the open market

Hops: (Beer)
would again add a reasonable amount to happiness and a good deal to commerce but would also stifle health High desirable by foreign countries

Opium:
would be highly desired by foreign countries (cash) stifles health a lot but brings a reasonable amount of health and commerce

These are the few major drugs I can think of that I think would add a bit of reality to the game. Mostly these resources would be focused on cash crops less than happiness and would be highly valuable trade luxurys.

Your thoughts and questions are welcome, however lets try and keep this strictly to game terms and not make it a morality disscussion. Thank you.

[Badtz Maru]

There are some interesting ideas here, but I think the game would have to model illicit trade for a lot of situations involving these drugs - you couldn't handle them as typical trade goods in most situations, because the leader of the country they are imported into would have to agree to have them. You would have to be able to sell to another country without their consent because you'd want to model the negative effects of the drug trade. This would be interesting, but not sure if it could be done without the SDK.

I could see a lot of potential for this, though. If you had access to a drug, you could export it to other civilizations and get money based on their size and wealth. The recipient country would have different options for how to deal with it.

They could prohibit the drug use and attempt to restrict the trade. This would reduce (but not stop) the flow of drugs into their country. The exporter gets money based on the size and wealth of the country that is importing drugs. The government would get a portion of the money made from the drug trade, but it would hurt their relations with the country that is exporting the drug and there would be a cost that might be more than the money made, based on civics. There would be added unhappiness among the people based on the crime caused by drug prohibition and the imprisonment of drug users.

They could ignore the drug issue. The government wouldn't make any money on the drugs being smuggled into their country, but it also wouldn't cost them anything beyond the productivity and health penalties for having the drugs in their country.

Finally, they could embrace it and trade for it like any other resource. This would reduce or eliminate the money the drug producer got for smuggling it into their country, but they would get whatever they chose to trade for the drug (money or another resource). They might also get reduced productivity and health penalties as the government would be better able to regulate drug use, ensuring purity and helping addicts remain productive by lowering prices for users. The drawback to this is it would hurt your relations with countries that prohibit drugs, and a black market trade would start automatically between your country and neighbors who didn't have a legit source for the drugs.

Some of these ideas (automatic involuntary trade between neighbors) would work with ideas I had about illicit arms trading. I think that a country that has borders with a country with more advanced weaponry should be able to produce a few units with those weapons, even if they can't produce them theirselves. This would bring the game closer to our reality where third-world countries usually have some modern weaponry, and nobody fights wars with bows and swords anymore, even though many countries can't produce firearms themselves.

This leads me to another idea, probably a lot more easily incorporated - we can already gift military units, why can't we trade for them? It would be awesome to be able to sell a couple of units of infantry to a primitive country at a high profit, or unload some obsolete units that are still better than what they have. A country with lots of military could make friends and money quick if a primitive neighbor with some spare cash got invaded by someone more advanced by selling them units to help them protect themselves.

[greenday_234]

I have really have nothing to argue with you on this one very nice response, maybe once the SDK comes out we can incorparate some of this ideas however, I think your right in that this is the only way to incorporate the drug trade and do it well. Definately don't want to half ass it.

Thanx

BTW I like the idea for arms trade, keep me posted.

[LotC]

I'm not sure about the whole involuntary trading thing. If you could make it work good that would add a new dimension to the trade aspect of the game. Good luck!

As far as standard luxury resources, perhaps 4:

Marijuana: unimproved- +1 hammers (for hemp). With farm: +1 happiness +1 food (hempseed extracts) +1 hammers. Would be nice to have an early game hammer/food source

Hops: unimproved- +1 food. With farm +1 happiness +2 commerce

Opium: unimproved- +1 hammers, with plantation +1 happiness +3 commerce. With discovery of Medicine- +1 health. +2 health with a supermarket

Coca: unimproved- +1 hammers. With plantation +1 health +2 hammers. With the discovery of Chemistry- +1 happiness

I didn't put any negatives in, not as some sort of statement but because I hate negatives on bonuses or improvements. That's why I never build workshops.

Edited for spelling and clarity.

[djpsychonaut]

It would be interesting if particular state religions were opposed to certain goods.... for example, many pagan religions have no problems with substances. Islam opposes alcohol, so it should be opposed to Wine and Hops. Christianity loves their Wine, but they would be opposed to Coca and Marijuana.

[djpsychonaut]

Originally posted by LotC
Opium: unimproved- +1 hammers, with plantation +1 happiness +3 commerce. With discovery of Medicine- +1 health. +2 health with a supermarket

Coca: unimproved- +1 hammers. With plantation +1 health +2 hammers. With the discovery of Chemistry- +1 happiness

I agree with a health bonus for Opium (although maybe not with the supermarket multiplier). Why not have a health bonus also for Coca? It was used as an anaesthetic in early medicine.

[rjwoer]

Thanks for the suggestion, greenday_234. I just got back from a short trip and I'm pleased to read your ideas and the subsequent discussion. Oddly enough, I gave brief thought to implementing beer and hard liquor into the game. Taking it to the next level with illicit drugs is an interesting proposition.

I agree with Badtz that the legality issue could make realistic trade difficult, but perhaps this could be skirted by allowing drug trade only with certain civics (or religions, as djpsychonaut suggested). I haven't done this with my other resources so I'd have to look into the code.

We could also bleed this over to the UN and make a couple drug propositions which could effect drug trafficking.

It certainly seems that opiates (opium, morphine, heroin, etc.,) should be included--either as one "opiate" resource or as individual resources--along with marijuana since it is the most popular illicit drug. Cocaine is huge from a trade standpoint, so it might also be considered. But then again, we don't want to take a good idea too far and clutter the game up.

Many of these substances have been, or are, used in medical practice--so that helps warrant their inclusion.

I will think on this and post more of my thoughts later . . . or questions if I think of any. Thanks again for the suggestion!

EDIT: I just posted a new thread with a poll. It will be interesting to see the results as they come in. (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=146490)