Announcement

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:07

The Core Module

The core module will contain the most obvious basic changes to the game in order to make it play more like Civilization 2. it will comprise of changes to 3 main areas of the game; Units, Civilizations, and Technologies.

Units

The unit selection will be changed to include all units from Civ 2, and get rid of all others (for example, it will entail removing the Worker unit altogether, and giving it's abilities back to the Settler.) It will also ensure that those units fit as closely as possible statistically to the Civ 2 units... As in, having the same build cost, movement rate, strengths and abilities. Where possibly, units will be graphically represented by the Civ 4 unit that most closely matches the Civ 2 version.

Buildings

The buildings in the game will be altered to the Civ 2 buildings. This will obviously include the removal of some buildings/wonders, and changes to the benefits of some buildings. Some wonders will change dramatically, and of all features of the core module, this is the one that will affect the game in the most major fashion. In some cases it may be necessary to alter the exact features of buildings in order to fit in with the newer game concepts that have no Civ 2 analogy, for example, culture. They will however be made truer to the original as the rules module removes the none-Civ 2 concepts.

Civilizations

The Civilizations included in the game will be altered to match the Civilizations from Civ 2. This will include removing/renaming leaders as needed, altering the Civs in the game and their details, and giving them the same starting technologies. This may also include altering the AI for the civilizations when computer controlled; however, it is more likely that this will be inluded in the Rules module.

Technologies

The Tech tree in the game will be altered to that of Civ 2. This includes the technologies available, which previous technologies are needed to reach a technology, what benefits that technology will give, and the cost to research each technology.

This core module will probably provide enough of the Civ 2 style for most people. Indeed, the first release of this mod will probably comprise of the core module only. As it theoretically comprises entirely of XML file changes, this module will be quite small in terms of filesize, compared to other modules. There may need to be concessions made in certain areas where either a certain Civ 2 ability or option is not available in an unaltered form in Civ 4, or where Civ 4 game concepts require certain aspects not inherent in the Civ 2 units, buildings, civilizations or technologies. The goal will be to create a mod which follows the Civ 2 statistics exactly where possible, and to make concessions that maintain the feel of Civ 2 where necessary.

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:07

The Civilopedia Module

The Civilopedia module is probably going to be one of the simplest, and yet most time-consuming, modules to create. Simple because in theory it will literally be a matter of grabbing the Civilopedia entries from Civ 2 and putting them into the Civ 4 files. Time consuming because there's just so many of them.

Unfortunately, a quick glance at the Civ 2 pedia files shows that it isn't as simple as one would hope. Firstly, whilst the text is split into multiple files as with Civ 4, the format they are split by is different, with seperate files in at least two different directories, and seperated not only by subject but also by language. Worse, at least in my files, only English, German and French are represented, meaning translation may be necessary. There's also the fact that the Civ 2 Civilopedia entries will need to be reformatted to match the Civ 4 XML style, so we can't even copy and paste.

On the one hand, all this work should be done in order to make the module as authentic as possible. On the other, it would greatly simplify and speed the process if we used Civ 4 entries where they apply to the units/wonder/tech, even if the Civ 4 version of the entry is worded differently to the Civ 2 entry.

The Civilopedia module therefore has two problems... the first being a lot of work for less immediate return, the second being finding someone willing to work on it. However, having this done will add a lot to the validity of the project, and will be excellent to round it off.

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:08

The Audio Module

The audio module is one that could potentially be the simplest module to make, although I've yet to check into this. I am not currently sure how the sound in Civilization 4 is stored, whether in individual standard MP3, WAV, OGG or other files, or whether packed into archive files. If they are in archives, I don't yet know if it is currently possible to extract them, and whether it's possible or even necessary to re-archive them.

The best-case scenario is that the sounds are stored un archived, or in a basic archive system, and are standard WAV files. In this case, it will be a simple matter to substitute the Civ 4 sounds with equivalent Civ 2 sounds. It may also take work in other files in order to point the game effects to the new files.

The worst-case scenario is that the sounds are not accessible until the SDK is released, and that they are referenced in other files which also require precise information about filesize or length. I need to research the audio accessibility question, although I doubt my worst-case scenario is accurate.

Ironically, for such a potentially small amount of work, the Audio module could potentially be one of the larger modules in terms of filesize, and would also go a long way to promoting the Civ 2 feel, along with the core module, and potentially the rules module.

There is one final issue here; that of legality. If we directly include the Civ 2 sounds, even for a Civ 4 mod, would this incur legal wrath? Or would it be acceptable use, of simply allowed by the Civ 4 team? If it is the case that we cannot use the Civ 2 music/sounds, would we find/create similar substitues?

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:09

The Graphics Module

The graphics module is the one that's probably going to cause the most debate amongst the team on how to go on about it, as there are three possible avenues to follow.

Firstly, we can try to directly bring over the Civ 2 graphics. Porting the 2D Civ 2 characters and art over to the 3D Civ 4 shouldn't be too difficult, as it will essentially require substituting the 3D models with a flat un-animated square with the Civ 2 picture pasted onto it. However this might not fit the theme, as the world would still be 3D, and zooming the camera in/out would cause the image to warp. Indeed, it might wind up being impossible to even see units unless you are fully zoomed in. This also includes an issue from the audio module; the small matter of legality in directly using Civ 2 graphics in the mod.

Secondly, we could simply use the existing Civ 4 graphics that are closest to the Civ 2 graphics. This has the advantage of units that look like they belong within the game world, and Civ 4 players will already be familiar with their appearance. It also allows us to work on this before the SDK becomes available. However, it has two prime disadvantages. The first is obvious; what if there are no units that really fit the appearance of the Civ 2 unit? worse, what if there are 2 Civ 2 units that both properly correspond with the same Civ 4 unit? How would the player distinguish between them?

The final option is to create new 3D models, textures and animations for the Civ 2 characters. this has the advantage of having units that fit the feel of Civ 2, whilst looking as though they belong in Civ 4. It's certainly the most professional of these options, which is also the problem... it's a lot of work, and it's easy to see if it's been done badly. If we can get someone on the team capable and willing to do this, it would be fantastic, but the chances are a little low. It also has one other problem... from what I know, altering the graphics won't be possible until the release of the SDK.

Regardless of the route chosen, the graphics pack will alter the following;

Units

The most obvious change in the art pack would be the units. These are most players main visual tie with Civ 2, and what they spend most of their time dealing with, so it naturally follows that having the units LOOK like those from Civ 2 as well as PLAY like them would be a huge boost to the project.

Leaders

Some of the leaders in the game are probably directly re-usable in the mod, being the same people. However, new models will be required for the leaders not seen in Civ 4. Hopefully, this would include their animations for their facial expressions. However, if the project team decides to go with direct use of the Civ 2 images, it may be necessary to substitute all leaders for flat images, even those that already have excellent Civ 4 3D avatars.

Cities
Potentially, the models for the different buildings and cities could be altered, including those for wonders. However, give the new way cities are represented on the game map, this may not be feasible, again, depending on what path is chosen. However, new models for some wonders may be necessary.

Techs
As I recall, techs had different images in Civ 2, and these could well be substituted into Civ 4.

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:09

The Rules Module

The Rules module is the most abstract and taxing of the modules to try and summarise. In short, this will involve altering the Python scripts for the game in order to to alter the underying game mechanics.

Due to the nature of coding compared to the other pursuits, it's harder to guage what exactly this will entail in terms of effort and payout, but the hope is that we can achieve certain specific goals.

Combat system

Probably the simplest and most do-able change is to the combat system. Although the plan is to have the same units with the same strengths, they still won't actually fight the same way in the Civ 4 combat system. A change to the combat system will do a lot to ensure units will act the way they did in Civ 2.

Game concepts

There are obvious some differences in the game concepts used in Civ 2 and Civ 4... if there wasn't, it'd be nothing more than a graphics upgrade after all. The most notable features in Civ 4 that need be be removed are the Culture System, and the Great Person system. Indeed, until the game concepts are matched up, the core module will need to make concessions on certain features... for example, imagine if the culture system was left in, but there was no way to produce culture?

There are probably an awful lot of under-the-hood changes to be made that I haven't considered, and I feel that if one part of the mod winds up being changed long after the other parts are complete, it will be this one. this is also the one, with the exception of the graphics pack, that will require the most specialist knowledge.

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:10

The GUI Module

The GUI module, if made, would be a substantial change to all parts of the control system for the game. it would involve altering the user interface in both apperance and functionality to more closely match the Civ 2 interface.

At this point I won't go into details regarding this module, for 3 reasons... I don't know if it's possible, I don't know how much work it is, and I don't know if it should be considered important. However, I'm keeping this entry in case of further development.

**aawood** · November 23, 2005, 17:10

-=Reserved for future development=-

**Junuxx** · November 23, 2005, 18:23

Interesting, interesting...

What about resources, civics, map generation?

**aawood** · November 24, 2005, 02:51

Ahh, good questions!

Changes to the Civics would hopefully come into the core module, although I think that at least at first development of the Civ 2 Government system for Civ 4 would be done as part of the rules module. I'll need to look into just what altering the civics entails... Can you alter how many civic groups there are as well as how many options for each civic? In that case, it should be fairly simple to reduce the civics to one option, government, and then add in the relevant options. if it isn't this easy, and winds up requiring a rewrite of some underlying code and even some GUI changes, it may be trickier than we'd expect... but I suspect it's a fairly simple matter, and as such can make it into the core module.

The map and resources are... tricky. As I can see, we'd want to make two changes to the map, perhaps 3. the first would be to simply flatten it out... have different terrain displayed by texture only, not by land shape. Whether this is possible, and whether we'd want the SDK, I don't know.

The second would be to alter the map-making code to more closely match the Civ 2 options. This would almost certainly wind up being part of the rules module, and is probably the hardest, most technical aspect to port over. Indeed, it may wind up being a case of a huge amount of work for almost no gain. Another option might be to simply disallow map generation options that weren't in Civ 2, and use the Civ 4 equivalents, even if they generate equivalent maps instead of identical ones.

Resources... I'm honestly not sure how resources are tracking in the game, whether via and XML file, some Python code, or something deeper in the SDK. Resource changes may be as simply as altering their apperance rate in an XML file and removing resources we don't want. Either way, this would probably be developed hand-in-hand with the map generation changes.

I'll amend the relevant sections above later with this stuff, thanks for the heads-up!

**Tiberius** · November 24, 2005, 03:21

aawood, first of all congratulations for this very ambitious, courageous and promising project

I have only one problem with it. It is true that from all civ versions, I had the most fun with civ2. So, until here, I agree completely with you.
However, I cannot ignore the fact the civ3 and civ4 have introduced some very nice game features I wouldn't like to play without. Some examples: borders, culture, resources, promotions and so on. In the same time, I wouldn't like to see again some of the obvious civ2 exploits/game flaws, like the overpowered howitzers.

So basically what I'd really love to see is a civ2 with all the changes from civ3/4 that add strategic deep and fun to an already great game. This could be rephrased also this way: I like civ4 and I'd like to keep it as it is, modifying only those things that made civ2 so fun. I want either a civ4 with civ2 flavour or a civ2 with civ4 flavour

Just my 2 cents.

**aawood** · November 24, 2005, 03:31

Hello Tiberius,

Interesting comments. But here's the sneaky bit; one of the reasons for creating this in modules is so that, in theory, you'll be able to have it exactly that way. Apply the core module and you'll have the old units, techs etc... but still keep the civ 4 game concepts such as culture (and therefore borders,) promotions etc. If you want the full package as it were, then the rules module will bring in the removal of the new game concepts, and the introduction of the old ones.

I envision, when complete, the modules being available seperatley (with later modules directly installable over the core module,) and a pre-combined archive which contains all modules in one go, to prevent people from having to install each one at a time if they want everything.

As for the howitzer... I'm afraid that for authenticity, it'll probably be just as overpowered

but it'd be simple enough to change it as you want, and I'd be happy to do you a slighty customised version once it's done with the howitzer altered if you're not sure how to do it.

But yes, thanks for your support... I'll probably start on it this weekend. I can't guarantee how quickly it'll be made, and I don't have the expertese needed for some of the modules, which is why I would encourage anyone who thinks they may be willing and able to help out to contact me, so we can get beta 1 out there as soon as possible!

**1shmae1** · November 24, 2005, 07:56

Ahh....why don't you just play Civ 2?

**aawood** · November 24, 2005, 12:33

1shMae, you ask a good question, but there are a few reasons.

Firstly is simply convienience; why bother having the two seperate games installed when you can have the one with the option to *act* like the other?

The second is the possibility of making a mod which remains true to the gameplay of the original whilst improving on it, the simplest example being by (potentially) having updated graphics (even if that only extends to seamless zoom.) Essentially, we can build a game that is what Civ 2 would have been had it been made today with today's technology, using the Civ 4 engine. If nothing else, the Civ 4 engine probably uses modern hardware more efficiently than the Civ 2 engine does, so in theory by recreating every aspect of Civ 2 with the Civ 4 engine, it could potentially run faster than Civ 2 on the equivalent modern machine. (This is theory, and certainly not the likely effect at the end of it all.)

Another reason, as shown with the post above, is; what if you want SOME aspects of Civilization 2, but mixed in with some of the newer game concepts of Civilization 4? This mod will allow that, due to the concept of distributing it as several smaller modules meaning you can, for example, have Civ 2 but with the culture and Great People systems, or the new World Builder.

Yet another reason is, funnily enough, for modability. Perhaps you always fancied modding Civ 2, but that 3 extra unit limit kept you away? Well, once you have Civ 2 for Civ 4, you have access to all of the Civ 4 modding capabilities.

If you want to keep them seperate, by all means do so; Civ 2 has always been a fine game, I still have it installed. However, with some luck this mod will serve to offer an enhanced version of Civ 2 that, and this is the important bit, still plays like Civ 2. That is why you might want this mod rather than the original Civ 2.

**pauli** · November 27, 2005, 11:19

The second is the possibility of making a mod which remains true to the gameplay of the original whilst improving on it, the simplest example being by (potentially) having updated graphics (even if that only extends to seamless zoom.) Essentially, we can build a game that is what Civ 2 would have been had it been made today with today's technology, using the Civ 4 engine. If nothing else, the Civ 4 engine probably uses modern hardware more efficiently than the Civ 2 engine does, so in theory by recreating every aspect of Civ 2 with the Civ 4 engine, it could potentially run faster than Civ 2 on the equivalent modern machine. (This is theory, and certainly not the likely effect at the end of it all.)

heh. i find myself wishing for the exact opposite: civ4 that runs like civ2 and looks like civ2. civ2 ran well on just about anything, in its day. civ4... not so much.

i'm am quite interested in this project, however... with any luck, you can come up with something that's pretty close to civ2, but without the bugs.

Announcement

New Project - Civ 2 for Civ 4

New Project - Civ 2 for Civ 4

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