End Open Borders Now

[TheDarkside]

Not enough time to read through this whole thread but it seems this discussion is about disallowing military units from open borders but allowing them maybe with a separate agreement.

From the title of this thread I thought maybe this had to do with a diplomatic request to ask another civ to end their open border treaty with another civ. This is something I'd really love see modded. Anyone look into that?

[Bhruic]

Open borders is considered 'trading', so if you ask an AI to stop trading with another AI, that would end their Open Borders treaty as well. Of course, it's almost always red, so it's not like you can ask them to do it very often.

Bh

[TheDarkside]

Originally posted by Bhruic
Open borders is considered 'trading', so if you ask an AI to stop trading with another AI, that would end their Open Borders treaty as well. Of course, it's almost always red, so it's not like you can ask them to do it very often.

Bh

Oh nice, I never knew that was included with that! Yeah it is usually red but I'm comforted to know the option is there

[Ennet]

Re: End Open Borders Now

Originally posted by 1shmae1
In all of history, I am aware of no instance in which one empire or nation permitted the troops of another to march through its territory in war without it too being imp0licated in the conflict. In fact, it is extremely rare for one nation to even permit an aly to march its armys through its territory. It is almost unheard of for a neutral to permit this.

Sweden allowed german troops pass throught their country by train during WWII. During the kuwait-Iraq, Turkey were under no strong threat from sadam.
During the cold war, both the US and the Sovjet Union had trops permanently positioned within other countries, and neither were activetly at war with one another. (And still have some). The crusades as mentioned above.
No question tho that any such deals are negotiated per number of troops and moment, not any kind of free movement inside the borders.

[Hernadir]

Re: Re: End Open Borders Now

Originally posted by Ennet

Sweden allowed german troops pass throught their country by train during WWII.

Alot of pepole, including me despite that im from Sweden, claims that Sweden was an semi allied to Germany. Sweden allowed german training camps in Sweden. Swedish cientist was helping Greman cientists, Sweden and Swedish investors did huge investments in Germany during the WW2, etc etc... Do not forget King Gustav V statement during WW2.

So Sweden are not a good example in this case.

[xboxstrwrs55]

So if you get attacked by a civ with nukes on one side of the map, and you are surrounded by civs who aren't fighting you, maybe even good friends, then you shouldn't be able to cross their boarders to get to the war civ and defend yourself?

[inetd]

I think you may run into problems when it comes to vessels with allied-bound or no right of passage at all. Often, cities are founded at coast lines and the cultural borders expand into the ocean. In real life, a nation usually has control only over its territorial waters (12 nm today as far as I know). And actually, I think it is not rare that nowadays military ships refuel at ports in friendly countries that would not allow passage to land-based units. In Civ4 however, expanding cultural borders may unrealistically limit movement of vessels, especially on maps with few water or a lot of islands.

If someone plans to make a mod that divides open borders into "open trade borders" and "right of passage" agreements, maybe it'd be a good idea to allow passage of sea units with open trade borders.

[1shmae1]

What I have done, for the time being, is defer the availability of Open Borders agreements until the development of Theology (and the rise of Christianity). My thinking is that uber-imperial systems, uniting diverse states into global alliances truly begins in ernest with the rise of the semi-Theocratic entity of "Christendom" and its mirror image in the Islamic world (which inspired which, I leave to the specialists).

This insures that most of the world has already been divided into religious spheres, making Open Borders agreements a little less likely (I am considering increasing the like/dislike penalty for different religions as well, to make it even more rare for different religions to open their borders to one another).

To solve the problem of international ocean exploration, I've simply made the Galley capable of entering rival territory. This has caused no problems. In fact, I consider the occassional sea-born surprise invasion quite realistic (once the enemy soldiers touch land, war is declared).

Ocean-going vessels, such as the Galleon, may not enter rival territory except where an open borders agreement exists.

I find this solution tolerable.