[Mod] Alternate Epic

[LordShiva]

Looks interesting - these are exactly the changes I've been hoping for, because going to war in the vanilla game is too slow/boring/not worthwhile. I'll give it a shot.

[Sessil3]

:] :] :]

[senormoll]

I really like your idea, and I think I'll give it a try. But I do have concerns that some of the above posters may be correct. I know what you're saying about nonplayers of your mod posting, but I think they're just offering suggestions while still keeping your intentions in mind. So I guess what I'm asking before I dedicate a few hours to an epic game of this mod, are the above posters correct with some of the war issues, or does the unit production really not cancel out the increased movements? I share your opinion on vanilla civ...that war, especially early on, takes forever and is almost impossible to take over cities because the slow movement time allows them to produce enough to defend your forces. I find IRL its almost the opposite...cities seem to have been conquered far more often in ancient eras than in modern times. Caesar was able to rule over all of Europe, while Napoleon and Hitler never came close.

So again, I like the idea, and I guess I'll end up trying the mod regardless...but I'm interested in whether anyone who has played this has found the above possibilities to be true.

[Sessil3]

With your shield or upon it.

Originally posted by senormoll
I really like your idea, and I think I'll give it a try. But I do have concerns that some of the above posters may be correct. I know what you're saying about nonplayers of your mod posting, but I think they're just offering suggestions while still keeping your intentions in mind.

Well, fair enough. Two points: Only one poster actually noted that "inconsistency" related to unit production and the stated goal of the mod to have shorter wars. The others just kibbitzed. Second, they haven't played the mod, and are thus just shooting their mouths off without a clue.

I have in fact played the mod-- and the unit production actually assists the stated goal of conducting more and better wars over a shorter period of time. You see... I wouldn't have put the change in if I didn't think it played well. It's offensive when people who can't be bothered to try something new have to whine and complain about it...

The reason it works is that I don't march off to war with 1 offensive unit. If I have two cities, I want 2 units guarding each (early game warriors are just fine!), and a minimum of 4 units to start ravaging the enemy countryside. I go after their workers, their mines, and any small city (usually just raze, as the AI picks crappy city sites), then with promoted units I hammer the enemy capital. All that is accomplished a hell of a lot earlier, if a blitzkrieg is required (in higher difficulty level pangaeas I don't see any other way to get an edge).. if you can pump out warriors a little faster.

From the realism point of view I'm thinking of dramatically reducing the cost of walls, castles and barracks in an effort to make those structures more accessible in the early game. This would certainly have the effect of making cities harder to take, but war isn't always about utter conquest.. sometimes it's just about relative denial of progress.

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Sessil3
While feedback is cool, theoretical feedback from people who aren't actually going to play the mod is not interesting to me. If this isn't your cup of tea.. go post somewhere else.

Perhaps if you were less offensive to people offering constructive criticism of your mod, more people would be interested in testing it. I've seen a couple posts from people who seem to like your mod ideas in general, but dislike a specific item. Instead of getting all huffy, and accusing them of 'whining' and 'complaining', you could have engaged them in a dialogue. Or, at the very least, simply said something along the lines of: "I understand where you're coming from, why not give the mod a try, and see if you still object to area X?".

Polite, curtious, and much more likely to get people interested in your mod. At which point they'll be in a better position to give you the 'informed' opinion you seem to be after.

Just a thought.

Bh

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Gelondil
I have been giving it some thought, and I'm pretty this actually SLOWS warfare. It makes warfare bloodier and more entertaining, that much is clear, but it doesn't make it any faster.

This addresses another problem with the game - obsolete units hanging around in both your and the enemy's empires. With vanilla, by the time my first musketeer is off the production line I can build riflemen. Once I've got one of them machinegunners are available...

With faster-built units that die much more easily, units can stay more current without having to pay excessive upgrade costs.

I'll have to try this mod when I've tried vanilla enough.

[Sessil3]

trolls of the world, unite!

Originally posted by Bhruic
Perhaps if you were less offensive to people offering constructive criticism of your mod, more people would be interested in testing it...

This is so laughable. Am I rude? You think my opinion of "constructive criticism" is offensive? Then don't post, and don't read the thread, and don't play the mod, and go the hell away. I honestly couldn't care less if "more people" would test my mod if I was willing to placate them by pretending to care about their theoretical, poorly thought out "ideas". Screw that. I'm not trying to get famous here, I'm trying to have some fun.

Constructive criticism:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism

QED.

Statistical vanity note: since I released 0.1, something like fifty downloads have occured(the counter resets each time you upload a file). That's pretty cool, and way more than I really expected. :>

[Bhruic]

Yes, you are rude. But, hey, if that's the way you want to do things, it's your call.

But thanks for the link. Perhaps you should read it?

"Because of the overuse of negative, nagging criticism, some people become defensive even when receiving constructive criticism given in a spirit of good will."

Fits you to a tee.

Bh

[Sessil3]

You, sir, are a troll. Go away.

[gotagota]

You're no Derek Smart. At least he's got a fake Ph.D to point to when he's arrogant.

Now you can yell at me for being unconstructive, and stop yelling at these other guys who aren't. That way, everybody wins!

[Sessil3]

Originally posted by gotagota
You're no Derek Smart. At least he's got a fake Ph.D to point to when he's arrogant.

Now you can yell at me for being unconstructive, and stop yelling at these other guys who aren't. That way, everybody wins!

Well.. maybe I have a fake Ph.D too? How would you know? Hell, I could BE Derek Smart. Please.. be constructive. Please! Please! Pweeeze!!!
Idiot.

Anyway. I managed to "fix" the +1 hammer for strategic resources not showing up in the production output. It's hacky.. but I like the way it helps new cities grow faster. It's in 0.3, which isn't done.

Other probable changes:
No inflation, which is a stupid arbitrary game balance thingy added without all the other factors in a real economy (like GDP growth) that balance it.
Coal revealed earlier, after ironworking sometime. Britons used it as a primary heat source from Roman times.
Looking at getting religions to spread faster. This should increase the strength of Theocracy.. right now "no non-state religion spread" is a nonstarter.
Great people tech hurry points need to be increased somehow to offset the tech increase. This should make that option more viable vs the superspecialist mode.

Also toying with the idea of conquest giving some number of points in a random advance the conquered civ has and you don't.
Likewise perhaps spies should have a steal tech mission that steals points. Seems harder than the other.

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by Sessil3
Great people tech hurry points need to be increased somehow to offset the tech increase. This should make that option more viable vs the superspecialist mode.

Look for {iBaseDiscover}XX{/iBaseDiscover} in CIV4UnitInfos.xml, I'm pretty sure that controls the RPs that the Great Persons generate.

Where { = < and } = > of course.

Bh

[Sessil3]

cool, I appreciate the headsup. I think I noticed you or someone else talking about it on another thread

[Sessil3]

0.3. I'm still mulling the pros and cons of more religion spread, and revealing coal earlier.

[KoBushi]

I'd like to see a variation of this mod which basicaly just halfs the # of years a turn takes, and doubles the time a technology taks to achieve.

My main problem with Civ4 is that technologies come too fast in proportion to how long it takes to build and move units... By the time your knights are at their doorstep, you've already invented tanks. I think the above would fix it, but I don't know how to do it hehe