AoD II - Cannon Bug

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hello,

This (&$()£W$!£"$ cannon refuses to get the bonus against a settlement.

Could it be the hill, or a bug with the dutch vs. portugese?

Whatever, savegame attached.

Thanks,
Mysh

PS Great this forum doesn't let attachments... I always get Upload Errors

Cannon_Bug.zip:
Upload of file failed.

Also it seems it doesn't support ColonizationSave type. I had to zip it.

The file is available for emailing if you wish.

[PrinceMyshkin]

Easy fix.

There is no bug, cannon city attack has been set to 0, by mistake I guess, in v1.05.

When attachments are fixed, I can post the file which sets the SoL movement to 5 and fixes cannon city attack.

[Dale]

Settlement attack bonus removal on cannons was deliberate. Artillery is NOT an attacking weapon. It does NOT give any bonuses when attacking a settlement. The bonus is unrealistic.

In the next version, infantry have settlement attack bonus instead. That makes soldiers at least useful now.

[Asher]

Artillery is NOT an attacking weapon.

:blink:

[Dale]

It's a support weapon. It supports other units. Or are you one of those that believe gunners pick up their artillery pieces and run across no-man's land screaming "CHARGE!"?

[Asher]

I'm just curious what purpose a cannon is if it doesn't attack something. Is it defensive? Is it a settler/pioneer?

You're so precious.

[PrinceMyshkin]

I see, I don't remember reading this in the update list, or maybe I am wrong, so I got confused with arti.

Hmmm... I see your point now. Makes grenadier upgrades tempting, at least the guy who gives them for free. The +100% is way too much for sure.

Strictly speaking I cannot see how artillery can attack either... It can bombard and can defend. I am not sure though, if this is the correct way to implement it or not.

Saying that...

I was thinking of Napoleon wars era, there were light/heavy infantry units.

What about light infantry unit, moving faster than soldiers and receiving bonuses when charging (eg close combat, city charging, woods charging etc)?

Heavy infantry would receive defensive bonuses.

Artillery cannot attack... only bombard (not only cities, but also terrain) and defend.

Dragoons would win in open plains, but would not be so good in rough terrains and city fighting.

Just saying random thoughts... go on, tell me off if you think I say stupid things.

[Dale]

No Prince, you say constructive things. Just the other blowhard above you.

I am considering a field bombardment for arty but will wait to see how the previous changes play over time.

[Dale]

I'm just curious what purpose a cannon is if it doesn't attack something. Is it defensive? Is it a settler/pioneer?

You're so precious.

Mate, I seriously considered you at least semi-intelligent till you said that. Artillery do not attack. They are a support weapon. They support other units in offensive manouvers (such as infantry). I at least had some respect for you till you said that. Not now.

[Asher]

Mate, I seriously considered you at least semi-intelligent till you said that. Artillery do not attack. They are a support weapon. They support other units in offensive manouvers (such as infantry). I at least had some respect for you till you said that. Not now.

I am not sure you understand the definition of the word "attack". If artillery never attacked, they'd never fire. I don't think they're staying behind and doing dishes.

You seem to latch on to non-standard terms and definitions then act all confused when people express confusion with your weird outlook on things...

[PrinceMyshkin]

Another one...

What if we allow colonists to move with wagon trains (like vanilla)?

They were like the bus of this era with caravans moving colonists.

[Dale]

I am not sure you understand the definition of the word "attack". If artillery never attacked, they'd never fire. I don't think they're staying behind and doing dishes.

You seem to latch on to non-standard terms and definitions then act all confused when people express confusion with your weird outlook on things...

In Civ and in Col when you "attack" a unit your unit moves into the plot occupied by the defender and engage them in melee combat.

In Civ and in Col when you "bombard" a city your siege unit does not move into the plot occupied by the defender and does not engage them in melee combat.

Artillery do not "attack" by the mechanics of the game in that they do not move into the area occupied by the defender to engage in melee combat. They stay in a rear position to bombard the enemy.

You seem to enjoy choosing your own definitions opposite to the actual context being used.

[smak]

What dale is trying to say is that in his mod as in real life cannon/artillary are used to soften up defenses by bombarding a city, fortification, or area with shells that explode. This causes casualties and busts down walls or just plain makes the enemy move out of the effected area and that lowers their defensive rating when they move out of their dug in positions.

These weapons do not take and hold territory in the way that ground units like soldiers and dragoons/tanks can. If a cannon/artillary unit came up against an infantry unit the riflemen would take some losses from random shells but would wipe out the artillarymen with aimed shots and would eventually close range until the shells would fly over and past them instead of landing among them. And if a cannon/artillary unit was attacked by dragoons/tanks the mobility of the attackers would allow them to distract the cannon with part of the force while the bulk of the dragoons swept around and hit the cannon in the side or both sides. Only the small distracting part of the dragoon force would take casualties.

Now in vanilla the cannon get 100% bonus to attack a city or native settlement regardless of where the cannon attacks from. This makes for a very unrealistic game because a cannon that attacks from sea has that 100% bonus and only a 20% penalty with amphibious attacks. And the defending cannon only gets a 50% bonus also innate to cannon. That means the attacker has 5.4 str and the defender only has 4.5. Sure you could say that doesnt include stockade or fort/fortress, but those defenses can be bombarded to 0%. Also something not quite realistic: typically when you bombard something into rubble like the carpet bombing in ww2 you leave ruins that defenders can use to their advantage like stalingrad, so defenses should never be at 0% after you built a stockade/fort/fortress. Also in vanilla you cannot attack a ship that is in coastal waters next to your city with cannon, because the game sees cannon as land unit and ships as sea units so they just cant fight. But realistically you could sink or damage ships with cannon if they get that close.

The only thing vanilla gets right is the ability to slowly damage defenses with cannon making it easier to move units in to attack.

From what i have read dale has removed the 100% bonus to attack cities with cannon and i think added some way to attack naval units too. What i think dale should do is make it impossible to attack with cannon at all. And instead have 3 buttons available, one to bombard defenses the way vanilla has, one to do a % damage to ships say a range of 5% to 20% and if this lowers str of the ship to zero it sinks, and a third button to lob mortars into a land tile that will do minor damage to half of the units in that tile randomly assigned, maybe a range of 0.1 str to 0.9 str.

Anyway thats what i think about cannons in civ4col, but i play strictly multiplayer and since dales mod only works on lans i dont have alot of experience with it. But i can tell you that in multiplayer games cannon are brokenly powerful, forcing good players to withdraw from cities taking their population with them and then counterattacking after the city is taken. Then again thats how most single player games end up, you let the ai take a coastal city and smash him with cannon and dragoons when he moves his units in.

Dale if you read this you got any plans to patch your mod so it will run on gamespy or even direct ip connections? I understand gamespy likely has a version requirement, typically the latest official patch right?

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hey smak,

Gamespy runs only official versions, unless someone has rights to upload a patch and is willing to pay gamespy.

The cannons in the curren AoD II version will attack ships automatically in the end of a turn, providing the cannons are inside a fort or fortress and an enemy ship is on a adjacent square.