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  • 2 cities strategy

    I had to edit this post because I was wrong in some things.

    Here is a simple strategy of winning with 2 cities on medium level without doing anything unnatural.


    The idea is to have a very good, very productive city in which you use liberty bells and another one in which you don't.

    Your main city will have good production with your increased rebel sentiment. In this city you will build an industry. In the other city you put all the units you don't need in the main city and you also use it to gather resourses. Since you use LBs in only one city you won't have such a big REF in the end. The reason you use LBs and don't wait till the end is, to increase production and to get FFs.


    Build your second city rather early. Now, send every unit that is not necessary in the first city, to the second one. Don't put a stateman in the second city. On your first on the other hand, put as many as you like. Let me repeat here that this strategy does not claim to be the most effective. But it does work and you are not obliged to do anything unatural, like putting your statesmen work as farmers.

    In the first city you build lumbermill and industry asap. The second city provides resourses and storing space for your colonists who will become dragoons when you declare indepedance.

    When you forsee that you will be ready soon you start to use statesmen in the second city too. In essense what you need is about 10k, enough money to buy guns/horses for about 15 dragoons plus a couple veterans. Cannons I only buy the first too. When your RS is close to 50% send your ships to buy guns etc. Ideally you will declare inepedance when you are at 50%. Don't lose a single turn if possible. The REF increases dramatically when you are over 50%.

    In my last game on conquistator level the size of the enemy force was 45 ground units, not big, right? Mine was 17 dragoons (6 of them veteran soldiers) and 2 cannons. My only casualties came from amphivious assaults, something that has to be taken out btw. There were no marines in the 17th century. For the record I won on turn 1623. My starting position was just ok, 2 fish but no other specials. My leader was Sain Martin.


    Of course you will do the standard things, send scouts early, trade with the indians, don't lose time etc. It is important to put a stateman early and trade a lot. Peter Minuit needs political and trade points and in my games I always lack political. Anyway if you get him around turn 25 it's ok.
    Last edited by Sir Alkis; December 6, 2008, 02:48.

  • #2
    This works on Revolutionary too. I can say that with certainty because in the only game I played my starting position was bad. I had the Dutch below me who didn't let me breath, my towns were away from the Europe zone, I missed Coronado etc.

    Nevertheless I won on 1655 without losing a town, of course. After all I didn't have many

    This time the REF was larger, 83 ground units and 7 ships.

    As things are now the only reason to build more than 2 cities is because you want to, not because you have to.

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    • #3
      I think fewer cities is better too. I want five at the most so I can produce all the resources/products. If possible, I only want my capital on the coast.
      And indeed there will be time To wonder, "Do I dare?" and, "Do I dare?". t s eliot

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      • #4
        OMG I totally don't like what I read. Sounds like the one-city challenge to me...

        Did you achieve this running Dale/Snoopy patchmod?

        Could you please test it on higher difficulty for the sake of argument?

        I hope post this will become food for thought for next patch!

        Thanks Alki!

        PS Regarding amphibious assault; did you have any footsoldiers fortified inside the city? As it is they get a 20%-25% penalty which should be enough to ensure victory at high odds.
        Last edited by PrinceMyshkin; December 2, 2008, 14:27.
        Coling since 1994... :)

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        • #5
          I play the standard version, unmoded, but I don't think it will be much different with Dale/Snoopy mod.

          Revolutionary is the highest level (equivalent to viceroy) and it works. Btw maybe you can try my little trick in yours games too. Build your 12 cities but have some of them with zero LB so that they lower your rebel sentiment. If your total rebel sentiment is below 50% the REF will not increase so much I think.

          Regarding amphibious assaults, yes I now use some footsoldiers too.

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          • #6
            Nice!

            OK Alki, I try to make cities to effectively lower my rebel sent. level!

            Glad foot sholdiers helped you! Make sure you have them fortified.

            These beasts can receive free promotions and become amazing in defense, providing you won't let them fight the whole war on their own... but they can stomp the first sloppy waves of amphibious invaders.

            Minuteman, Formation, Veterancy I, 150% fortress bonus, 25% fortify bonus, 30-50% rebel sent. bonus and -20% penalty for any amphibious assault attemp!

            The odds will be 11.1 : 5.6 against a veteran I dragoon favouring you!

            So if you have 12 in one city, this would mean they will probably defend an amphibious assault from 3 man-o-wars without losing a single guy.

            Add some medics too. One per square.
            Coling since 1994... :)

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            • #7
              Re: 2 cities strategy

              Originally posted by Sir Alkis Some false ideas:

              1.No LB until the last moment. Wrong. This is not only unnecessary but it will make your gaming experience poorer. No LB until the last moment involves a special strategy in which you try to win in 40 turns using every possible exploit and still it's doubtfull you can beat the REF no matter how small with 2 dragoons and several cannons. Cannons are like **** against them.

              2.The REF increases according to your liberty bell production. This is totally wrong. To clarify things it's not the liberty bell production that increases the size of the REF it's the rebel sentiment. (You can see that by pressing F3.)
              First of all, I'm not criticizing your strategy, you have proved that it works at the levels you report. However, you have some false ideas about those false ideas.

              1. As you say, you can do the exploitive "lightning win" in 40-45 turns at Revolutionary, but that's not the basic "Late LB Surge" strategy. In the latter you build up your economy normally, train or recruit Elder Statesmen, and accumulate your desired guns, horses, and (optional) cannon. [The point of cannon in the "lightning" trick is that they don't count as population for purposes of rebel sentiment.]

              2. The REF increases exclusively in response to the cumulative total of LB that you have produced. Rebel sentiment per se has nothing to do with it. [Note that the King will add units only on turns when you are producing LB, and at a finite rate, thus the effectiveness of late LB production.]
              "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

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              • #8
                You are welcome to criticize me. Then maybe I learn something I don't know.

                Ok I know about the cannons that they don't count. I also know that some use them effectively by letting the AI get a town and then getting it back. The good thing about my strategy is that it doesn't need such exploits. Just pure gameplay. I do standard things, attack with dragoons as soon as they land and keep all my cities.

                Now about the REF I know that most people believe it increases "exclusively in response to the cumulative total of LB that you have produced"

                My experience though shows something different. In all my games (and I played many on almost all difficulty levels) the size of the REF is never too big as long as I am below 50%. As soon as I get to 50% the size of the REF increases dramatically.

                Messages that the King has increased the REF you get all the game but usually it's just a unit or two. When you are above 50% he adds whole armies each time.

                So my question is why he adds so many units now that I am over 50%? How many LBs do I produce to alarm him that much? Well, about the same I did when I was at 40%. But at 40% he didn't add so many units. So I suspect there is a threshold and after that you get big increases. Btw on revolutionary the threshold seems to be at 40% not 50%.

                I have also noticed that when I have a big army before declaration the size of the REF is bigger. Maybe a coincidence, I don't know.

                To get back to the subject of "Late LB Surge" I don't find it enjoyable. I want to have a jewel city even if it's only one.

                Also, my revolution war is easier than the "Late LB Surge". Why is that? Because I have FFs. Sometimes I get even Dom Pedro before the revolution.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sir Alkis
                  You are welcome to criticize me. Then maybe I learn something I don't know.

                  Now about the REF I know that most people believe it increases "exclusively in response to the cumulative total of LB that you have produced"

                  My experience though shows something different... To get back to the subject of "Late LB Surge" I don't find it enjoyable. I want to have a jewel city even if it's only one.
                  Sir Alkis,

                  I'm sorry if I came on too strong there, I certainly don't want this to seem personal. The most important thing is to play so that you enjoy it, your strategy does that (and wins too!)

                  Here's the "definitive" guide to REF growth based on analysis of the code:

                  I've seen a lot of confusion on the forums about how the REF, rebel sentiment and revolution works, and I've been confused by it myself. I did some research on the exact rules for these, both by looking at the game's actual code and by playing the game, and I thought I'd write up a little guide...


                  -- HtL
                  "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

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                  • #10
                    What about pissing off the King?

                    Does it only have an effect on tax rate?
                    Coling since 1994... :)

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                    • #11
                      Thanks for the link Herman. It's a nice post by someone who obviously knows about computer programming.

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                      • #12
                        You're welcome, Sir Alkis. Sometimes it's great to just play the game, and sometimes it's nice to take a peek behind the curtain.
                        "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

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