How to get FFs without having to face a larger REF.

[Clio]

I noted this in two threads, but I figured this deserves a thread of its own:

You can convert hammers to any of the five types of points required to recruit founding fathers. Producing political points this way does not result in a larger REF.

A single lumber mill staffed by master carpenters produces 37 hammers. That's 111 FF points a turn.

There, enjoy.

[wodan11]

I noted this myself in my last game. I had some resource-producing cities that I simply turned on to making FF points rather than making something like a building that wasn't suited for them.

What I haven't really considered is the possibility of doing that early game. Seems like that might prohibit some other opportunities, in particular making a goods producer city.

Basically it seems to me that it is best if a city specializes in producing just one, or at most two, things. Simple food consumption makes more than that impractical.

This means that you have to spread out your goods production into multiple cities.

So, you need cities which specialize in the following: tools, guns, horses, (maybe) education, (maybe) religion, first good (cloth, rum, etc.), second good, etc.

So, if you want to make early cities produce FF points, then (1) you want a lumber mill (wouldn't you?), and you'd have to give up on some of the above specialties.

Thoughts?

[CWRice]

I dont make my own guns. I prefer to buy them in Europe. They're not that expensive and they're a royal pain to make.

So lose the colony producing guns and have it generate FF points instead. You can usually buy 100 guns for 700 gold or so which is nothing in the late game.

[Clio]

Originally posted by CWRice
I dont make my own guns. I prefer to buy them in Europe. They're not that expensive and they're a royal pain to make.

So lose the colony producing guns and have it generate FF points instead. You can usually buy 100 guns for 700 gold or so which is nothing in the late game.

There is a couple or three advantages to making guns:

1- You can eschew making refined goods in your colonies and instead go straight for making guns in a small colony, and grab an early victory. All you need to fight and win the independence war is LBs, guns, horses and some cannon.

2- If you're aiming for a large navy to fight the King's, you absolutely need heavy arms and tools production. Otherwise, money's not going to be enough to buy all that's required.

3- Once the war starts, arms production allows you to replace losses beyond your arms storage capacity.

[Clio]

Originally posted by wodan11
Basically it seems to me that it is best if a city specializes in producing just one, or at most two, things. Simple food consumption makes more than that impractical.

This means that you have to spread out your goods production into multiple cities.

Specializing cities and keeping them small certainly makes sense.

- Less of a logistical nightmare to keep the cities supplied.

- Getting them to an appropiate rebel sentiment percentage is quicker come the endgame.

- Less Indian pressure on you. (You way of life is threatening to us!)

[snoopy369]

Buying guns for 7g/ea is silly, if you have any ore at all, later in the game ... it's basically free to make them, except for opportunity cost, and take the following equation:

(M) * (1-t) ?= 7

where t = tax rate and M is maximum good sale rate. Basically, 19 is the maximum good sales rate (and you rarely will find this in the later game, but let's assume it for now); so the opportunity cost of making guns is 19 times 1-tax rate. I don't take into account multiple people to make the guns (3 instead of 2) because ore is usually more readily available, and so you'll end up needing another person to make the raws anyway for your coats or whatnot. If the tax rate is 40%, then your equation is:
19*.6, or 11.4; so you'd buy guns at 7 there, all other things being equal; but if your tax rate is 70%, then you'd have 19*.3 or 5.7, definitely not buying guns.

It's actually a bit more complex than that, particularly when you consider that you're probably already maximizing your 'key' raw materials; you probably get less than 100% efficiency by adding another person to them. You also probably get less than 19 sales rate, of course, which significantly drops your M rate. My guess is in fact 40% is around the tax rate where guns become worth building, if you have a reasonably large colony (5-6 cities at least).

[outsder]

1. You need just 2 people to produce goods (ex: a cotton planter and a master weaver) but 3 people to produce guns (ore miner, master blacksmith, master gunsmith, of course there will be some excess tools tho)
so a gun's price-per-manpower is 1.5x of other goods.

2. Ironworks and Magazine's building cost are much more expensive than other factories.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by outsder
2. Ironworks and Magazine's building cost are much more expensive than other factories.

You mean Magazine and Armory?

[Clio]

Actually Arsenal and Ironworks are the names of the factory-level buildings.

Also colonies dont start with armories, they have to be built too.

Seems like an Arsenal is worth building only if you're going to be building ships of the line. Otherwise, it's just too much guns, not enough storage space.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by outsder
1. You need just 2 people to produce goods (ex: a cotton planter and a master weaver) but 3 people to produce guns (ore miner, master blacksmith, master gunsmith, of course there will be some excess tools tho)
so a gun's price-per-manpower is 1.5x of other goods.

2. Ironworks and Magazine's building cost are much more expensive than other factories.

1 - I addressed early on. The vast availability of ore compared to other resources makes up for it.

2 - You will need them anyway (you HAVE to produce guns post-WoI or you lose with anything other than a trivial REF) so that particular difference is irrelevant.

[AgentTBC]

Originally posted by snoopy369


2 - You will need them anyway (you HAVE to produce guns post-WoI or you lose with anything other than a trivial REF) so that particular difference is irrelevant.

If you are facing anything other than a trivial REF you're doing it wrong. Unless your goal isn't to win but rather to sandbox a big economy. Which is cool; but it's not the best way to win, as I've pointed out.