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Dale/Snoopy PatchMod (Bug-fixes and more)

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  • Yeah I've been able to recreate this. Bug hunting it now. Thanks for the good pickup.

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    • Bug found and squished.

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      • Cool.

        Out of curiousity - what made the difference why it work or not ?

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        • My stupidity.

          Seriously, I had the incorrect base value when locating the best return plot. As such, it would find one in some cases causing the ship to return where it came from instead of switching sides.

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          • I see - this might explain why it was broken on qiuck tests rushing west right away, while in "normal gameplay" it worked - exploring more of the map before discovering/using the west passage.

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            • Okay, playing on marathon, huge america map. I just sent some treasure (roughly 5k) using the king's delivery service, and a couple of turns later (it's now turn 20) the king asks me for the other 2.5k as tax.

              Shouldn't 'transport fees' count as tax?
              Indifference is Bliss

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              • The lump sum he's asking for is not tax. And you will not loose goods by refusing it, so just refuse. (Tho i too think it's annoying. I.e. the English King seem to be the most annoying virtual Character ever)

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                • Dale - one thing we probably need to add to the "to be fixed reasonably soon" side is figuring out how to address the REF not coming over quickly enough for a victory (REF units remaining overseas and not coming over by the final turn), like in Fleme's thread etc.

                  My proposed options, I think:

                  1. Fix the AI to know how long is left and send things based on that - ie, if you DoI with 80 turns left, send the REF evenly spaced out over turns left 80-30, say (or some reasonable ending number), if not faster (for whatever other reasons it sends the REF out at particular times). Easier, but requires AI coding

                  2. Fix the ending point to be non-static, and simply require the DoI by turn 300 (or adjust that to an earlier date). Harder, and affects other things, but is also something several people have asked for (presumably would be a popular request).

                  3. Leave it as is, and have a warning at a certain point that the REF may not entirely come over if you don't DoI by a certain point.
                  <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                  I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                  • Originally posted by N35t0r
                    Okay, playing on marathon, huge america map. I just sent some treasure (roughly 5k) using the king's delivery service, and a couple of turns later (it's now turn 20) the king asks me for the other 2.5k as tax.

                    Shouldn't 'transport fees' count as tax?
                    They're actually not directly related. The second request is just a normal lump-sum tax, not related to the treasure except in that he asks for your lump-sum based on your current gold holdings (so it's a similar amount because, well, you have that much gold ...)

                    If you're playing unpatched, it does virtually nothing to decline. If you are playing with the patch, accepting the request will cause the REF to increase much slower.
                    <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                    I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                    • There might be 4) Adjust the the victory condition - if the Player Declared Inependance and the time Run out, he win Time Victory (Rather than loosing Europe Loss) as the King failed to Kill him in time. So (Assuming Indy and Europe victory is on, as per Default):

                      If you don't DoI at all and time runs out, you loose Europe.
                      If you DoI and time runs out, you win Europe.
                      If you DoI and kill Kings troops, you win Independance.

                      It leaves space for a Victory DoIng on the last turn, but the Time victory will give you puny score anyway, so i think it is not a real Exploit.

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                      • I think that requires a fundamental change - "Win = Independent" is the current mindset, and that would be a more fundamental shift than I'd prefer in a patch (even though it's probably simpler than most of the above suggestions...)

                        I'd like to have a few victory conditions, really, but I'm not sure that is patch-level modifications, unless it turns out Firaxis likes it ...
                        <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                        I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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                        • On another note... Do you guys consider adressing price change mechanics ? Or is is too much on the Mod side ?

                          There are some threads on CFC about Prices droping and never recovering being uncool.

                          Also Firaxis put a "Market Correlation" parameter in the XML, but left it zero - so i suppose they were planing on a more elaborate system, but did not get it done.

                          I am thinking along this lines:

                          Highly Correlate European Markets (75 - 100 %)
                          Make prices fluctuate faster (i.e. after less goods being sold/bought)
                          But make Prices recover over time (By slowly decaying the Goods Sold counters)

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                          • I've taken another look at the REF reduction stuff (see posts 87-90 on page 3) and added some logging into the code to see it's effect at that level (diff attached, against version 1.05).

                            From the numbers dumped out, it looks like the iKingUnitThresholdPercent is not having the desired effect because of the rounding to integers. When iKingUnitThresholdPercent = 90 (on hardest difficulty) the bellRateMultiplier is 0 (when I think you expect it to be 9). That will have some effect on the REF, but I don't think it'll be what's expected and might end up a lot more drastic!

                            I think a similar problem affects the gold based REF reduction, but that's harder to test because auto-running the AI means the king doesn't demand any money from you. Cheating AI?!

                            Originally posted by Ellestar

                            Now, my question is why do you bother with getRevolutionEuropeUnitThresholdMultiplier() at all? If i understand it correctly, it doesn't significantly change REF size, as it just defines when units will start to be added in batches of 2,3,4... units. Actually, with your approach you may as well increase REF, since REF increase triggers with a smaller getRevolutionEuropeUnitThresholdMultiplier() and a number of units added in that increase will happen with a bigger getRevolutionEuropeUnitThresholdMultiplier()
                            Looking deeper into getRevolutionEuropeUnitThresholdMultiplier() I agree with Ellestar's post that this multiplier won't have the effect we're craving. Increasing that modifier will increase the time between the next REF change but will also increase the number of units added at those changes, so overall the effect isn't as big (and I think it's difficult to measure nicely as it's a weird exponential progression).

                            An easier number to play with might be the variable passed to changeBellsStored(). An alternative handicap modifier could be applied to that so at easier levels something like 75% of the bells created in your colonies count towards increasing the REF, but at harder levels that's increased to 120%. Does that sound plausible?

                            That's about as much calculation as my brain can take for one evening . . . don't know how you guys manage all the modding and stay sane!
                            Attached Files

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                            • There is another REF Related thing: The Units you buy from the King via Diplo do add a lot (The Price You paid) to your BellsStored counte (and hence the REF).

                              So from buying a few units you will get a huge increase in BellsStored.

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                              • Hmm, Monty, thanks for the analysis... I'm fairly sure Dale's change has some effect, because he ran quite a few runs to make sure it was a smaller REF on the easier levels, but I'll take a look at it when I have a chance (possibly today, possibly no) ...

                                Refar, buying units from the king SHOULD add to your REF as far as I'm concerned.
                                <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                                I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

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