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Why oh why are there no events & quests?

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  • #1

    Why oh why are there no events & quests?

    They say they would complicate the game but I disagree! They require so little work but provide so much immersion! Don't give me "moders will put it in", I hear this response for every suggestion people make to improve the game, If we always took this as an answer then game developers may as well sell game creation kits for 30-40 euros.


    Look at EU3 In Nomine, EU3 was a really big game, the quest system helps guide the player. Why couldn't the quests in CivCol (make them more often than civ ones) do the same for new players? Push them in the right direction?

    Also why not make random events start on turn 100 or something like that. That way the player isn't swamped with options! Or even include events but have them off by default, that way when people get used to the game and start playing with custom games they go all "oh what are these event thingies, I think I'll try them".


    Why!?!! Why!!? :better crying:



    I expect this in the game or added in a patch!

    Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
    The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
    The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila
    Tags: None
  • #2
    moders will put it in

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Why oh why are there no events & quests?

      Originally posted by Heraclitus
      Don't give me "moders will put it in", I hear this response for every suggestion people make to improve the game, If we always took this as an answer then game developers may as well sell game creation kits for 30-40 euros.
      Originally posted by Dale
      moders will put it in
      That was cute.



      But would you mind contributing to the debate now? Can you think of a single reason I haven't debunked for the game developers not doing it?

      Especially pushing the quest system further into something that pushes the player in the right direction is something that may be beyond the scope of mods.

      PS If by moders you mean you and by mod age of discovery II then I'm markedly less unhappy with the situation.
      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

      Comment

      • #4
        I see it difficult to implement random events in the core. I see them as a requirement mod-wise though.

        Why do I say that? (I base all these off Civ4 events since that is the core of C4C)

        1. First and formost, events are intrusive. I hated them because I would be working towards something, but kept being interupted by them.

        2. Events are by nature a negative. If the event itself is not negative (forest fire, slave revolt) then the fact they are pure random and result in un-earned adv's/disadv's. This is a negative in gameplay as if your enemy gets a good random event at an opportune time them you hated them. Or if you got a good random event at the right time, then it led to your winning, just off that event. They can win/lose a game for you at the right/wrong time.

        3. A lot of events (based on Civ4) don't fit in Col, or are covered by other components. "Give me food", covered by trade. Religion events, no religion in Col. Etc etc.

        Have I covered enough?

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Dale

          2. Events are by nature a negative.
          So are goody huts and combat by that definition. Civ and col are by their very nature not deterministic.
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Dale

            3. A lot of events (based on Civ4) don't fit in Col, or are covered by other components. "Give me food", covered by trade. Religion events, no religion in Col. Etc etc.
            You are talking about civ4 events. I'm talking about Col events. Are you seriously suggesting that there are not literally dozens of appropriate events that would add flavor to the game.


            BTW Aren't the fluctuations in prices and wars between the homelands already events of some kind?



            Also you haven't made any argument against quests.
            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Dale


              1. First and formost, events are intrusive. I hated them because I would be working towards something, but kept being interupted by them.
              Please, most event effects have minimal consequences.

              Also, you haven't read my post. Events can be turned off, and are in my proposal turned off by default.
              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Dale

                Have I covered enough?
                Not by a long shot.
                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                Comment

                • #9
                  Mostly these are simple cost-to-benefit ratio type decisions. Would Events/Quests, and the costs associated with developing them, "pay for themselves" with increased sales? Firaxis either thought that they weren't worth the dev costs OR that there simply wasn't enough time and resources to get it done well by the publisher's deadline.

                  That second half of the sentence spells the end to many a really good idea in gaming. In that context, once you add the fact that modders having proven their ability to add these in later, and you can imagine why the dev team would focus on other core elements of the game (like a good AI and unit balance, for instance).

                  I doubt there was a conversation that went like:

                  "Hey, we've got tons of extra time and resources, so should we do Events/Quests?"

                  "Events/Quests are the children of Satan, the 4 horsemen of gaming, the Kiss of Death. If we had a million extra dollars and 3 more years of dev time, I'd cut off my thumbs before putting them in Col."

                  I bet it was more like:

                  "Yeah, that WOULD be great, but we just don't have the time and resources. Hopefully the modding community will put out some good work, and we'll do our best to support them"
                  Last edited by yin26; August 19, 2008, 16:38.
                  I've been on these boards for a long time and I still don't know what to think when it comes to you -- FrantzX, December 21, 2001

                  "Yin": Your friendly, neighborhood negative cosmic force.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Civ4Col expansions will have events. The next expansion (PLEASE!) of Civ4 will have some of the aspects of Civ4Col incorporated into it.

                    Wishful thinking at the worst, but hopefully very accurate foresight (we'll find out within a couple years).

                    Or will it all be in Civ5 instead?

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by yin26
                      (like a good AI and unit balance, for instance).
                      And modders can't do this why? Are you forgeting that the reason BtS has great AI is because an AI mod was incorporated into the patches.
                      Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                      The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                      The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by yin26

                        "Events/Quests are the children of Satan, the 4 horsemen of gaming, the Kiss of Death. If we had a million extra dollars and 3 more years of dev time, I'd cut off my thumbs before putting them in Col."


                        That's totally what happened!
                        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Heraclitus


                          And modders can't do this why? Are you forgeting that the reason BtS has great AI is because an AI mod was incorporated into the patches.
                          Good AI and unit balance is vital to the game being playable (and thus selling at all). Events are cool, but they're secondary (Tertiary?).
                          <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                          I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by snoopy369


                            Good AI and unit balance is vital to the game being playable (and thus selling at all). Events are cool, but they're secondary (Tertiary?).
                            Its nothing a patch can't fix. And honestly balancing units is trivial with so few of them.


                            A patch adding new content is much rarer.
                            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              AI and unit balance should be correct BEFORE the game ships, as far as the developer can test. Patches correct AI and unit balance that is discovered after the fact when the thousands of players find loopholes in the AI and/or unit balance that testers couldn't find
                              <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                              I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                              Comment

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