what happened to the großrossiya thread

[PLATO]

What will happen if American advisors are bombed?

The US will let the Russians know exactly where they are and they will be with the groups that they want to prevent the Russians from bombing.

If they get bombed anyway, then the first one will be a freebie with lots of ugly talk but no action. The second one will institute air cover or ready alerts and some type of quid pro quo. The third one is when the shooting will start.

[NICE MOBIUS]

The issue in society is the selfish-outlier, those people who are ready to destroy society for their own benefit. Communism of early 20th century was ill equipped to deal with them, the pressures put on Russia at the time with constant war (WWI, civil war) just made sure that most ruthless among the original founders will come on top, so that was that, then. In a more peaceful environment (Nordics) a better version of the same has come about, for the most part it is in place even today.

That "society be damned, as long as I am king" kind of people are not that rare, I'd guess even as many as 2-3 in a 100 in general, but they tend to rule to roost, and if they are not contained they will subjugate the rest to them. It is easy to meet them, and they have an advantage when you are on the opposite side, as they select an optimum route to "victory" without consideration for the wider system. As you get closer to the leadership positions in society/politics/business, there are much more heavily concentrated, average intelligence or capability, but their propensity to roll over everyone and anyone to propel themselves gives them an edge over "ordinary" capable people. (this should also be taken into account with new surveillance powers which are concentrating historically unseen power for a tiny minority who have access to the full breadth of the information).

Democracy, with the culturally accepted rules is the best way to deal with them so far, and economically you need the state to keep them in check, yet this world is actually slowly going away. EU is fully undemocratic, and US democracy is slowly crumbling away.

Jon Ronson, famous Cardiffian, has already thought of this: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...sychopath-test

Also: https://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson...st?language=en

[Proteus_MST]

Ok

here's a book. read it with the monacle of a discerning mind and we'll talk again.

(hell, even its tille gives a straightforward explanation )

http://www.amazon.com/The-Grand-Ches.../dp/0465027261

At the moment I am unfortunately lacking the time to read a full book for leisure.

But it would be nice if you could tell me if it gives answers to the following questions:
1. Does the book contain any indices that Putin is paid the USA
and if question 1. negatively answered:
2. Did the USA somehow force Putin to react to the Ukraine crisis with annexation and the instigation of a civil war? (instead, for example reacting peacefully to it ... for example using gas deliveries as pressure to have the Ukraine uphold their commitment to the Crim fleet base treaty ... and sending his own election observers for the elections in spring, where the new regular government was elected)

[Bereta_Eder]

Yes.
Bare in mind it was written in 1998. It rather accurately describes how russia will be put into a "leach" (guaranteeing US dominance through NATO for the forceable future - which entails a complete dominance of neoliberalism, the errosion of the social state and all public facilities etcetc).

TO make a long story short, were Russia to accept the status quo of a let's say facilitated regime change in ukraine and its eventual entrance to NATO, then geopolitically Russia would be forever demoted to a third world player.

What putin does now guarantees that this is not the case.

For the matter of Ukraine. You know there were other countries which gave russia the shivers. One of them is Finland which repsected Russia;s worries about her joining NATO, it did not, and (before the crisis) was a prosperous, rather happy country (if one takes into account the terrible weather and the far too many lakes).

Ukraine let itself be used as a pawn for US advance, it is now destroyed) and Russia did exactly what it should have done to re-surface in the world stage. (and This is very-very good news for the world).


Everything that is being happening now in ukraine, was exactly forseen 20 years ago.
The only "wild card" was russia's reaction.

It chose wisely.

(also there are other "clairvoyance" incidents too (azerbaijan, georgia).
It's also interesting to read wthat the muricans think of the franco-german axis in the world stage)

[Bereta_Eder]

Jon Ronson, famous Cardiffian, has already thought of this: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...sychopath-test

Also: https://www.ted.com/talks/jon_ronson...st?language=en

Bah! Years ahead: the psychopathology of the politician.

http://www.biblionet.gr/book/16234/%CE%9B%CE%AF%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%82,_%CE%98%CE%AC%CE%BD%CE%BF%CF%82/%CE%97_%CF%88%CF%85%CF%87%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%B8%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%AF%CE%B1_%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85_%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%8D

[rah]

The book was written in 1998 your let's say is just that. The US was only one aspect of the "regime change" made more important by certain parties to justify their own actions.
Always forgotten were the people themselves that overthrew the government. They were doing it just because the US told them to is just further justification.

it is now destroyed) and Russia did exactly what it should have done

i.e. destroy the Ukraine. Mission accomplished. To put the majority of the blame on the US is outright absurd.

Just admit that you took advantage of a few million in aid as an excuse to destroy/absorb a country just you could prove that you D*CK is getting bigger.

[Bereta_Eder]

My POV is of course not US dominance, nor prosperity.

My POV is Ukraine and Russia. That's it. (and world peace. but then you'd accuse me i'm a beauty contest contendant)
The US helped destroy that country after turning Syria into a mass grave.

I don't care if you agree. (I'd be rather beweldered if you did)

[rah]

Then why did Russia destroy the Ukraine?

[Thoth]

Then why did Russia destroy the Ukraine?

Russia had to destroy the Ukraine in order to save it.

[rah]

How's that working for the citizens in the Ukraine. And I hope they don't quote the same 30 Crimean citizens that were paid off.

[Thoth]

How's that working for the citizens in the Ukraine.

About as well as things worked out in Iraq.

[rah]

I would say, we can't get them all right, but our track record has been pretty bad lately.

And you have to admit that we spent billions and billions to screw up Iraq. We spent less than a billion in the Ukraine and that was over almost 10 years. So saying that money caused the revolution is a tad funny. Yeah we started giving them money and they almost took a decade before they finally got around to it.

[pchang]

Try not to confuse home with logic. He'll just go off on another rant.

[rah]

At over 2000 posts and 50k views, I think we're going to get one anyway.

[Bereta_Eder]

If and when I feel like it.