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Thread: Broccoli

  1. #1
    The Mad Monk
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    Conspire Broccoli

    The Government cannot force you to buy it.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

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    regexcellent
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    True. But I buy it anyway.

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    The Mad Monk
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    That is your choice, and no one else's.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

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    Zoetstofzoetje
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    in your case, they could pass legislation which forces McD to mix it into their burgers, so effectively yes they can.

  5. #5
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    You will end up having to use health insurance at some time in your life so someone without health insurance will end up making someone else pay when they show up at the emergency room. That's not true with broccoli though.
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    So where were you when the Feds needed you?
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

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    Dauphin
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    Isn't car insurance compulsory? If not, isn't the same argument valid against that (or is that argument rebutted by saying that you don't have to buy a car)?
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    Why all the outrage at broccoli but not a peep about cauliflower? This is a clear case of focusing on the collards, while letting whitey go scot free!
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    Felch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dauphin View Post
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    Isn't car insurance compulsory? If not, isn't the same argument valid against that (or is that argument rebutted by saying that you don't have to buy a car)?
    Liability insurance is required, but it's mandated by the states, not the federal government. Some states might not even require it.
    Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.

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    Dauphin
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    You can drive uninsured in some states? Scary. Let me know which ones so I can avoid driving there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
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    So where were you when the Feds needed you?
    They haven't ruled yet. BTW I believe that is the argument they used.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dauphin View Post
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    You can drive uninsured in some states? Scary. Let me know which ones so I can avoid driving there.
    If any such states exist they'll be down south.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
    "A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself."
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    Berzerker
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    so the Feds demand hospital emergency rooms cover people without insurance, then the Feds argue for taking over the health care industry because we're covering the uninsured in hospital emergency rooms

    wonderful

    by that argument, food stamps creates federal authority to take over the food industry too... So why not broccoli, people with lousy diets are costing the country health care $$$

  14. #14
    Felch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    If any such states exist they'll be down south.
    The land holdout is New Hampshire. Wisconsin was the last state to add the requirement for insurance, and that was only a couple years ago. Maybe if you knew anything about the south you'd be less prone to spewing ignorant bullshit.
    Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.

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    DinoDoc
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    So assuming Toobin's prediction of a 5-4 decision against the mandate happens, what effect do you think it might have on the Presidential race?
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    The Mad Monk
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    Well, both sides will push hard on the ability of the president to nominate; I would give the advantage to Republicans here doue to the unpopularity of the bill among likely voters.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felch View Post
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    The land holdout is New Hampshire. Wisconsin was the last state to add the requirement for insurance, and that was only a couple years ago. Maybe if you knew anything about the south you'd be less prone to spewing ignorant bullshit.
    That about sums it up tidily.
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    The Mad Monk
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    Just the transcript of an analysis that keeps playing on the media:

    JEFFREY TOOBIN: This was a train wreck for the Obama administration.

    ASHLEIGH BANFIELD: [Whispers] Wow.

    TOOBIN: This law looks like it's going to be struck down. I'm telling you, all of the predictions, including mine, that the justices would not have a problem with this law were wrong. Justice Kennedy, the swing vote, was enormously skeptical. Justice Alito, Justice Scalia, were constantly skeptical. Justice Thomas didn't say anything but we know his position on the issue. The only conservative justice who looked like he might uphold the law was chief Justice Roberts who asked hard questions of both sides. All four liberal justices tried as hard as they could to make the arguments in favor of the law, but they were- they, they did not meet with their success with their colleagues. Most surprising to me perhaps, Donald Verrilli, the solicitor general, did a simply awful job defending the law. He was nervous. He was not well spoken. The argument got off to a very bad start for the administration. And it was really the liberal justices who is carried the argument much more than the lawyer.

    The argument that seemed to give justice Kennedy the most trouble and he is, of course as we know, the swing vote in so many issues, justice Kennedy practically his first question out of the box was, we know that Congress can regulate commerce. But can Congress create commerce? Can -- and Donald Verrilli had great difficultly answering that. He said no, but he said we're not creating commerce here. There was a lot of discussion of the issue, the liberal justices kept making the point that we discussed here many times, that people who refuse to buy health insurance are in fact part of the health insurance market. They are, in fact, imposing costs on the taxpayer. And Paul Clement, who was representing the 26 states challenging the law, responded that if you believe that not acting is, is commerce, there's no limiting principle to that. And, certainly the conservative justices were very responsive to that argument. Paul Clement I thought did a really excellent job attacking the law. And if I had to bet today, I would bet that this court is going to strike down the individual mandate. The only possibility I saw-

    BANFIELD: This is not at all what I expected you were going to be saying. Not at all. But, I do want to ask you this.

    TOOBIN: That's why we cover the news, to see what happens.

    BANFIELD: This is a mammoth task for one man. No kidding. This is a mammoth task for the Solicitor General. Many people watching this process saying going into three days, two hours a day of oral arguments is huge for one person Is this a factor of not having the right material, not having a good argument or not being prepared and just having a bad day?

    TOOBIN: I think- you know, I can't answer that. I don't know why he had a bad day. I mean, he is a good lawyer, he was a perfectly fine lawyer in the really sort of tangential argument yesterday. He was not, simply, ready with the answers for the conservative justices.
    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew...crapped-scotus
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    OzzyKP
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    I'm loving the oral argument. Verilli is getting pounded. I can't wait for the individual mandate to go down in flames.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dauphin View Post
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    You can drive uninsured in some states? Scary. Let me know which ones so I can avoid driving there.
    You can drive uninsured in NZ, and if you hit an insured driver then their insurance has to pay for them
    Safer worlds through superior firepower

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    How does the broccoli claim square against George Washington's requirement that every adult white male own a gun? How does it square against the requirement that every child receive vaccinations? There is tons of history here and it's perfectly legal so if our current EXTREME right wing supreme court throws away all history and precedence, like they did wrongly with campaign finance laws wrt Citizens United, but sadly that might be what happens with the rotten political actors we currently have on the court. One look at the horrible Bush vs Gore case in 2000 shows just how self serving and politically motivated the political appointees on the Supreme Court really are. Just go ahead and read the transcripts of Bush vs Gore and see what horrible partisan actors they are. They don't give a rat's ass about the law other than how far they can twist it to meet partisan political goals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felch View Post
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    The land holdout is New Hampshire. Wisconsin was the last state to add the requirement for insurance, and that was only a couple years ago. Maybe if you knew anything about the south you'd be less prone to spewing ignorant bullshit.
    Whine all you want but it's reasonable to expect the most backwards parts of the country to be backwards. Sure, it didn't hold true in this case but this is likely the exception which proves the rule. We all know the south is the arsehole of America with the worst record on just about everything, especially the deep south so please stop bleating like a goat.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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  23. #23
    regexcellent
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    Oh please, the south is not backwards. Ever been to Raleigh, for instance? How about the Hampton Roads area? Atlanta? Miami?

    The swing vote is likely to be Scalia as he has written an opinion on marijuana in the past which would make it more difficult to justify overturning this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    How does the broccoli claim square against George Washington's requirement that every adult white male own a gun?
    Article I, Section 8, clause 16 of the Constitution, states that Congress shall have the power “to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia” — which is exactly what the Militia Act of 1792 did.
    How does it square against the requirement that every child receive vaccinations?
    This happens at the State level when the scope of Federal power is the question here. Idiot.
    Last edited by DinoDoc; March 27, 2012 at 23:21.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
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    The Government cannot force you to buy it.
    Sure it can. Give away broccoli stamps that can be redeemed for broccoli, then charge the taxpayers for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinner View Post
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    How does the broccoli claim square against George Washington's requirement that every adult white male own a gun? How does it square against the requirement that every child receive vaccinations? There is tons of history here and it's perfectly legal so if our current EXTREME right wing supreme court throws away all history and precedence, like they did wrongly with campaign finance laws wrt Citizens United, but sadly that might be what happens with the rotten political actors we currently have on the court. One look at the horrible Bush vs Gore case in 2000 shows just how self serving and politically motivated the political appointees on the Supreme Court really are. Just go ahead and read the transcripts of Bush vs Gore and see what horrible partisan actors they are. They don't give a rat's ass about the law other than how far they can twist it to meet partisan political goals.
    Yeah, that's pretty much obvious. The conservatives on the supreme court don't like this particular law so they will kill it by making the ridiculous claim that the government can't force you to buy something. Oh, but the government forces everyone in the country to pay for its services! Oh never mind.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by regexcellent View Post
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    The swing vote is likely to be Scalia as he has written an opinion on marijuana in the past which would make it more difficult to justify overturning this.
    No.

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    I can't wait for the individual mandate to go down in flames.
    Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

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    The conservatives on the supreme court don't like this particular law so they will kill it by making the ridiculous claim that the government can't force you to buy something.
    It's not a ridiculous claim, as today's oral arguments demonstrated.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by regexcellent View Post
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    Oh please, the south is not backwards.
    Name the shitty condition, high school drop outs, preventable disease, premature death, teen pregnancy, STDs, childhood poverty, high school drop outs, single parenthood, divorce, child abuse... It doesn't really matter which we talk about because no matter what problem we talk about some southern shithole will be the worst in the nation. Alabama and Mississippi are universally the worst in the nation and the only shithole who ever gives them a run for their shitty money is Texas. Face fact, the south is a mother ****ing shithole which is worst at EVERYTHING!
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  29. #29
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    Face facts, dude. California is the worst state in the Union. Hating on the South isn't going to change that.

  30. #30
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    Some people won't like to admit this basic fact but that doesn't change the fact that the south is worst at everything. Name a negative condition and those shitbags in the south are the worst at it. Everything, though the bigots in the south love to try to pretend its all the fault of negros. It's not.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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