Have you ever had someone chase you in the dark? I have. The very act of chasing someone down in the dark is to instigate an altercation. It's self defense if you pop someone who just chased you down in the dark. And yes, you "give up" the right to shoot someone for popping you, if you went out of your way to chase them down in the dark.Originally Posted by KrazyHorse
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
The bearing on this case is that Zimmerman obviously chased down an innocent person and thus instigated the altercation. Chasing someone who obviously just committed a crime is completely different as they already instigated the altercation by committing the crime.
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
No, it isn't. It may become self defense depending on what happens when he corners you/you turn around to face him, depending on what he does (which does not have to include him getting his hands on you). Otherwise I could reasonably claim self defense by running down the alley, turning and shooting him in the chest.
04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Get Rich or Die Tryin'
Nowhere have I said anything about the pursued using a gun. That is obviously different than popping someone in the face due to the range and severity of the counter-attacks.
Zimmerman reportedly had a bloodied nose. You chase someone down in the dark, that's what you should expect to receive. To receive it, you have to have closed within arm's reach. It is very different than your counter example where there is distance between the two. It's very different than your counter example where a deadly weapon is used.
Zimmerman was obviously wrong to chase the guy down, obviously endangered lives by doing so. He shouldn't be on the streets. He shouldn't have a gun. That's the very least that should have happened.
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
I have no idea why people make such huge fusses over things like this. It looks like George Zimmerman is guilty, and it looks like he'll be arrested soon.
There's no need to make this a soapbox for everyone's grievances about racism and law enforcement.
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005
Then half the internet would not exist anymore. Billions of dollars in advertising revenue would vanish. The stock market would crash as Google lead the panic down. People would start talking to each other in public and getting into fist fights instead of flame wars... Zimmerman would have to chase down millions of people who were out on their porches enjoying the evening instead of locked inside posting on message boards and watching 24/7 news channels... utter chaos!
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
But Jag, it's the Internet! Where vigilante justice is served up via the Enter key!
Instead of a gun!
Yay, Internet justice! It's working!
Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms
Are you sure ? Until recently, we had police officers answering 911 calls and still have - though a recent reform means that medical calls are sent to medic staff.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Denmark is not America. Thank god
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
It's questionable that Zimmerman would have been arrested without public pressure. Who knows now but it seems plausible that the police would have let this slide.
When I did it (though the operator told me not to), they ended up charging the guy for 'terroristic threats' for him threatening me... the DA's office told me they were going for witness intimidation, but he took terroristic threats in his plea.
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
Are you saying that yanks are happy with low quality nonprofessional service when they call for help ?
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Cops belong on the street, not on the phone.
I say that even though I've had experience with terrible dispatchers.
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
Al, you certainly are an idiot. Professionals at a phone do a way better job than any cheap unexperienced noob no matter what kind of service they are providing.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
I want my cops on the street. We don't have enough cops as is.
Al, you certainly are an idiot. Professionals at a phone do a way better job than any cheap unexperienced noob no matter what kind of service they are providing.
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
I'm guessing Denmark is a much safer place than Philly.
Have you ever heard about efficiency, doing the right thing from the start etc ? A good controller can replace several cops "out there".
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
Bet that most of the world are a safer place than Philly (Somalia and some Mexican cities excepted).
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
That's exactly why you have someone trained to do the single task of being a 911 operator, instead of a generalist police officer.
Do not take anything I say seriously. It's just the Internet. It's not real life.
Quite agree - noone want a noob or an unexperienced person in that position
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven Weinberg
We don't have that many cops here per 100,000 population yet the violent crime rate is among the lowest in the US for a large city; in fact it frequently is listed as the safest large city in America. It's not like the cops do nothing but you'll more often see them giving directions to tourists trying to find some attraction then you'll see them arresting someone. I kind of like the laid back attitude where they'll talk to someone first before bringing the hammer down and it seems to work because the crime rate is damn low by American standards.
Granted, it's an expensive place to live so you automatically get a more wealthy demographic living here and much of the more crime prone underclass has left for some where cheaper. One of the most common "crimes" is college kids getting drunk in public at the beach yet drunk driving isn't much of a problem because of frequent public service announcements, strict enforcement of drunk driving laws, and the fact that bars insist on calling cabs for people because they can lose their liquor license if someone drinks at the bar and later gets a DUI. It's not just lots of cops and strict enforcement which brings results because sometimes smart enforcement and having the cops give someone a stern warning works just as well and saves the public money.
Last edited by Dinner; March 24, 2012 at 04:25.
"Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
"A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself." - Joseph Pulitzer
According to Geraldo Rivera the hoodie was to blame. If you dress like a hoodlum he says, expect to be treated like one.
Oh, and BTW, Zimmerman wasn't registered as a neighbohood watchperson.
"I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!
Sounds like Baghdad and Kandahar may be too.
Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.
...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915
Exactly.
The operator can get you the professional you need, be it a cop, or an ambulance, fire services, etc. The operator does not need to be (and isn't) a cop/doc/firefighter rolled into one.
"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
WHAT?
This is where an awesome Mark Twain quote would be, but Apolyton says it would be too many lines. :(
So?
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio
Oh man, Justin Bieber is in trouble.
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
What gives with the old photos of him? You notice all the photos of Trayvon Martin going around are when he was 12-14? Why are there no recent pictures?
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
Becuase they want to avoid showing the piercings, tatoos and full diamond grill.
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
Perhaps because he's dead and so can't do a photo shoot.
"tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"
He was 17 and had a facebook that the family closed when he was killed. I guarantee you he had pictures.
"Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi
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