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Quick Expansion Strategy with France

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  • Quick Expansion Strategy with France

    After rah´s City States centred Strategy this is another attempt at exploring general strategy in the brand new Civilization V. The strategies and ideas I´ll present in the first couple of articles have proven themselves in Single Player on Deity difficulty - that though defnitely does not mean they represent some fundamental truth. This is the very beginning of this game and I definitely hope it has enough depth that we´ll see lots and lots of development in strategies and understanding of the game´s mechanics.

    The following is a look at a quick expansion strategy with France focusing on taking advantage of this civ´s trait and the Liberty Cultural Policy tree.

    Like almost anything you can call "strategy" in civ, this approach does not refer to the whole game, but instead is about the initial expansion phase from Ancient up to early Medieval era.

    The Plan
    Expand very quickly and make use of the new cities, supporting their buildup with Cultural Policies from the Liberty branch which you adopt faster than any other civ could relying mainly on France´s trait.
    The nice thing about this buildup is that it puts you into a position of many options. You expand your empire quickly - what you do in between is your choice. This strategy is the strongest if left unchallenged till early Medieval. It´s still easily possible to get units to defend the growing empire - though defending against a rush by a human in a MP game should be very hard without cutting down on the expansion parts in favor of units.

    Against the AI the "full buildup mode" will be much easier to pull off than against humans in Multiplayer.

    The numbers in the build order relate to quick game speed.


    France - Fast Expansion
    • turn 1: worker

    • turn 5: Adopt Liberty (at 15 culture)

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    Adopted Liberty
    • when worker done: monument/worker to grow if tiles worth to grow to present

    It´s worth growing the city here past pop2 if there are tiles worth hooking and working fast before starting contruction of a settler. I recommend hooking and growing to enough size to work the tiles that provide more than 2 food or 1 food and at least 2 production. Hooking Gold tiles isn´t important during this very early stage.
    • after potential growing: settler

    • turn 15: Adopt Collective Rule (at 30 culture)

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    Adopted Collective Rule

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    Planted second City

    Optimally you plant your second city the turn you adopt your second Social Policy, Collective Rule, definitely not before since otherwise it won´t receive the half full granary on foundation.
    • second city + capital: worker + settler

    Once you found your second city, continue expanding with another worker and settler. At this point it´s likely you have to compromise. You might need additional units though if you do it right your warrior and the cities should be able to defend against barbarians relatively easy at this point in the game if those are your concern. In a MP game the danger of units coming your way is even bigger, especially if it´s not a 1v1v1vX, but a team game or duel.
    • once third city founded:

    - Stonehenge in one of the three cities can be a possibility now, especially if you have one with decent production. Researching Calender early should fit the strategy anyway, since hooking happiness quickly will be important with fast expansion expansion and growth.
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    Attempting Henge
    - Third worker, possible a rudimentary army/more army.

    - At least one Monument

    - Third settler for fourth city
    • Adopt next Cultural Policy: Republic vs. Citizenship

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    Republic

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    Citizenship

    Adopt your third policy before building your third city, sometimes even before building your second, depending on when you could get the settler for it and plant it.

    Remember that costs for Cultural Policies scale with the overall number of cities you control (puppet cities don´t count).
    Costs for adoting third Cultural Policy: at 2 Cities: 80culture, at 3 Cities 95 culture

    Costs for adoting fourth Cultural Policy: at 3 cities 170 culture, at 4 cities 200 culture


    At this point - still exploring the abilities of the Liberty branch - you can chose between Republic and Citizenship.

    Republic is a straight forward hammer bonus. If it is good anywhere, it should be best in a strategy that aims for many cities quickly like this one. At this point you cities should be accumulating around 3-10 production per city, which makes the additional hammer of Republic a bonus of somewhere between 10% - 30% - not too shabby. Also multipliers apply to this 1 hammer, which thanks to decimal places becomes 1.5 for example when producing a settler with Liberty having been adopted.

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    Production in Cities when adopting Republic

    Citizenship increases the speed with which worker build tile improvements. It says 25%, though that depends on the game speed.
    On quick speed it shaves off a turn of farms, mines, plantations, trading posts, not roads though for instance.

    You have to take an educated guess here whether Republic or Citizenship first will bring you better results. If you have lots of resources to hook, maybe go with the last, if you have enough workers and all relevant things hooked and are now connecting your cities with roads, go Republic.

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    4 Cities
    • Adopt next Cultural Policy: Represenation vs. Meritocracy

    Where you strategically go from this initial buildup is your choice. You can get a military and attack someone, you can keep on expanding, you can rush for a specific wonder etc. See this article for different tech paths after initial buildup.

    In any case you´ll be able to adopt more Cultural Policies.
    Still exloring the strengths of the Liberty brancn, Representation
    and Meritocracy are the options. If it´s only between those two, then gor for Representation first if you have enough happiness, other Meritocracy - that mostly depends on how much you expanded at this point in the game.

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    Adopting Meritocracy

    Representation pays for itself over the course of the game - if it´s a long enough game and makes your new citiy acquire tiles even faster giving them +3 cultural from the start together with France´s trait.
    The choice is not too hard, Representation is a bonus, Meritocracy an answer to a problem, not so much a gain. If you´ve got that problem, go that route first.

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    5 Cities

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    Empire running, ready to produce an army for instance

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    Demographics

  • #2
    For all intents and purposes, this is exactly what I did in my first game. Worked great, set me up with a small little empire that spanned a relatively narrow, long continent, and by the time I was able to start adopting Patronage civics I had plenty of gold to reap the rewards of CS, essentially following rah's article before ever reading it.

    Those two strategies synergize extrordinarily well for the French.
    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

    Comment


    • #3
      What happened to waiting to get the game, Guy? Decided you couldn't wait for the patches? ;P
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
      ){ :|:& };:

      Comment


      • #4
        "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
        "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

        Comment


        • #5
          very good article

          Although it seemed to be clear for months now that this strategy would work you really shed some light on the fine little details. I would have hoped for some more suggestions on tile improvement and city placement though. But maybe this would be best reserved for another general strategy article.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is like a walk in the park against AI. Based on one duel size Deity game which I finished and one Deity standard size game that is still running here my assumptions to the questions I asked above (They are for SP so including CS):

            Social Policies

            I found it viable to not finish the complete Liberty tree. Instead I went:
            Liberty - Collective Rule - Republic - Patronage - Philantropy - Scholasticism

            After that you can go Honor for warfare or freedom/commerce/rationalism for additional city development. In CS heavy SP games you can of course also finish the Patronage tree.

            City Placement

            The second city was placed in food rich territory.
            This is a huge exception to the later cities. Reason for that is you want it to take over the role of producing settlers from your capital as soon as possible. So food is not exactly what you want but it is that 3 yield tiles that you want. Gold is not important for second city but for third and beyond.

            I specifically settle near hills and in woods as second priority. First priority was of course to accumulate luxury resources. Basically you settle everywhere where there is no open desert and snow in the long term but the order does matter. Don't walk to far though, you want to have a dense network of cities for deploying defenses. One exception: I found it practical to built a city next to my nearest enemy and also next to a City State near him which I would ally with after allying with the maritime ones. This combination usually builds a pretty strong defensive line which you are able to defend with only 2-3 units against an advancing army as the enemy is declaring you very early anyway. The CS serves the role of distracting and providing another firing city. I found the CS to be way better in Deity than other difficulties when fighting for you regarding units produced although there seems to be a random factor in how much they actually build.

            City Improvement

            I want to say two words to you - just two words: Trading Posts. This is of course pretty obvious, but especially true for SP games with maritime city states. You want to get that gold and you need less or no food rich tiles. As you are spamming settlers like crazy you will reach the happy limit very early and that additional food will best be replaced by production or gold. Let the citizens work as scientists once you got library and switch every grassland tile for a woods or hill and even unemployed citizens once you reach that happy limit. A few river farms might be good if you want one city to grow substantially larger for example for producing wonders fast. Ideally your capital will take that role and has enough food bonus from maritime CS.
            In MP of course most of this strategy will be different (building farms more important early on, especially on rivers). My tips are only focussed on my SP experience as I could only speculate what might be best in MP in the long run.

            Comment


            • #7
              Regarding Social Policies:

              It´s absolutely viable, likely even the better plan to not max out Liberty just like Cyberian said.

              Comment


              • #8
                jobe,

                First of all, thank you for making the first good cut at policy planning, you make that very clear.

                I want to see if I understand your development procedure, circumstances permitting; do I have this right?

                In the capital: worker, monument or worker, settler, settler or military.

                City #2: settle just after Collective Rule, worker, monument or military.

                City #3, worker, military,

                About this time, the best production city may start Stonehenge, another city builds a monument, another builds a settler, military units as needed.

                [One comment: I can hardly imagine *not* using my first build for a scout. Ruins are too valuable, recon is important, and contact with city-states nets gold.]

                You don't discuss the tech path other than mentioning that Calendar will be in there, partly to enable Stonehenge; what sequence do you like?
                "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard View Post
                  In the capital: worker, monument or worker, settler, settler or military.

                  City #2: settle just after Collective Rule, worker, monument or military.

                  City #3, worker, military,

                  About this time, the best production city may start Stonehenge, another city builds a monument, another builds a settler, military units as needed.
                  That´s right. Obviously Civ is not chess, so naming exact opening sequences up to the third city is a tricky thing since the setup is not the same every time. But with the limited yields of Civ5 and no mechanics like Slavery etc. Civ5 allows for less variation.

                  The idea is to go max worker/settler takign advantage of FRance´s trait, sneaking in a monument here or maybe even a granary+library (for GP making) there and setting up an empire that gives you various options from early Medieval on. If you need units earlier - you need units earlier.


                  Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard View Post
                  [One comment: I can hardly imagine *not* using my first build for a scout. Ruins are too valuable, recon is important, and contact with city-states nets gold.]
                  I won´t lie - I´m a MP player and there are no ruins in MP .

                  If you play, do the math: What is the average bonus I´ll get from a ruin and what is the average number of ruins I´ll get (with that additional scout/without)? Obviously the setup you play is the decisive factor here. If you play a duel on a large map, you will get a thousand ruins, if you play small Inland_Sea with 5 other people it won´t be that many, scout or not. In Civ4 difficulty level decided what bonuses the huts could provide - I don´t know if it´s the same in civ5, but it might not be worth delaying a worker by 5 turns to get 20 gold or some map info - it is worth delaying a worker though for an additional pop in a city, or obviously the super imbalanced free settler and technology. I don´t think the latter ones appear on higher difficulty levels though.


                  Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard View Post
                  You don't discuss the tech path other than mentioning that Calendar will be in there, partly to enable Stonehenge; what sequence do you like?
                  Take a look here

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    In one game my exploring scout promoted twice, first to an archer who had the scout's bonus of ignoring terrain. (Meanwhile in my first game my starting warrior ended up as a Pikeman while still in the Ancient Era, very cool even if it makes no sense!)
                    "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      with France
                      when worker done: monument
                      That's where i stopped reading.
                      Thanks for wasting 2 minutes of my time.
                      Knowledge is Power

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        God, you must be a slow reader if it took you so long to get to that point. If it takes you that long, you probably wasted even longer posted your snarky reply.
                        Try making an actual contribution instead of complaining about people that are trying to. Geeze.
                        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rah View Post
                          Try making an actual contribution instead of complaining about people that are trying to. Geeze.
                          Well said.
                          "...your Caravel has killed a Spanish Man-o-War."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            another great late game tactics when using this and not having won on a Continents Map Type:

                            I was tired of slow wars of attrition against the AI using just a small group of elite units- I wanted to make a massive army and crush them instantly. That's what this strategy is designed to do! This game demonstrates Civ V style infinite city sprawl (ICS) quite well. The settings are...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, not a bad article, but my only issue is that if you've got a decent tech lead, you really don't need that big of a civ or a ton of troops to knock off the AI, so this is probably a touch of overkill.
                              But I could see how it would be entertaining.
                              It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                              RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                              Comment

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