Failing miserably on Prince setting

[Calibos]

Hey guys, this is my first post so I apologise if my questions are laughable, stupid, duplicates, etc. but from an hour or so of lurking you all seem like a nice bunch

Anyway, I have been playing CivIV for a couple weeks now (I played the early editions on the Playstation before rekindling the romance, several years later, on the PC) and on my first few games I did pretty bad (even on easy setting) and essentially wasted hours of my life.

So I did some research, used the tutorial, and admitted to myself that I simply won't just "pick it up again". I started a new game on the setting below Prince (Warlord or Chieftain, cannot remember) as the Chinese and ended up doing pretty well. I lost the space race to the Americans as I spent a lot of time at war with Russia and Mongolia, both nations became Chinese and I owned a lot of land I also had a lot of gold, decent technology, large populations, great culture, blah blah blah. Basically, I was just playing to see how well I could do overall with no specific plan in mind, I was light-years ahead of the other nations in terms of technology before the war so I claimed the moral victory.

So anyway, I started a new game on Prince setting (again using the Chinese) and after a few hundred years I was already dead (barbarians killed the only warrior defending my only city, lol).

After a few more restarts, I managed to survive the barbarian onslaught and started to develop my nation. Everything seemed to take a long time to research and I gradually lost all my gold (research plummeted from 100% down to 0%, Mathematics in 500+ turns ) and the majority of military units once the strike kicked in.

Now whilst I was struggling to break even, every other nation was sending Frigates to my shores (my greatest naval unit was a galley), they also had great technology and enormous amounts of land. By the time I could even send units over to discover these nations the Persians and Americans were pretty much in the middle of a Space Race, thus rendering the last 6 hours of my life a complete waste of time.

So how is it that every one else in the world is able to develop so quickly? I assume it's because of poor planning and management on my behalf, but what is it that i'm doing wrong?

Here is where I think I’m going wrong in a typical game, I usually play Continents/Terra map on Epic or Dynastic time.

1. I usually set workers to automate, as I am not sure how to optimize the work.
2. I study the technology tree in a random manner, as I do not know how to utilize it effectively, though I generally go for hunting, sailing, animal husbandry, bronze working, pretty early on.
3. I build cities next to as many hammers as possible (as I believed that more hammers = faster production, though I feel this is wrong after some reading).
4. I try build barracks and granary in every city and produce a lot of military units early on as barbarians keep destroying my improvements and it really pisses me off.
5. I use slavery to hurry production on a lot of things (usually when the number of angry citizens outweigh or equal the happy) and I allocate research according to whether I make profit or not. Usually it is around 80% so I do not lose any gold per turn, though I guess if I produced less military units I could research faster and theoretically build a stronger military?).
6. I try to out-culture a nearby enemy city to overtake peacefully.
7. I ALWAYS fail in building the Pyramids, just how the hell can you win this race?
8. I usually get impatient during war and send wave after wave of unit to attack (even if they have no chance of winning) in a vain effort to deplete enemy HP for the stronger uints to go in and attack.

Yeah, sorry for the long post. Any tips or links to previous tutorials or something would be very much appreciated; I need to beat this game so I can start sleeping at a normal time again.

Thanks

Edit: One more question that has been bugging me is the use of great people to discover new technology. I find that even when I consume the great person at the expense of new technlogy that nothing is discovered, I do not know whether this is a glitch in the game or whether i'm doing something wrong but it just seems like I waste a lot of useful assets. Is there a formula to this madness or am I playing a bug?

Thanks again

[Felch]

1.

Workers on automate is fine for lower difficulties, but if you're playing Prince on CivIV, you're going to want to be more thoughtful. The strategic choice you face is to either go for a cottage economy which is simpler to execute on a turn by turn basis, or to build irrigation and go for a specialist economy. At this stage, I'd recommend cottages. Expert players seem to love the specialist economy, but if you're struggling, you probably just want to simplify as many tasks as possible.

You should try to shoot for a worker for each city, and you should try to make sure that every citizen is working on an improved tile (a tile with a mine, farm, cottage, or exploited resource on it). Focus on exploiting resources first, and make sure they're linked to your cities with roads (if you've gone through the tutorial you should already know that much).

I see that Wodan is looking at this thread, and he knows far more than I do, so if he says otherwise, I defer to his judgement.

Oh yeah. Welcome to Poly.

[Felch]

4 & 7

These go together. If Barbs are pissing on your grave, try to build the Great Wall. It stops them from breaking into your cultural boundaries. If you're having trouble in the Wonder races, pick a leader with the Industrious [IND] trait.

[wodan11]

Everything seemed to take a long time to research and I gradually lost all my gold (research plummeted from 100% down to 0%, Mathematics in 500+ turns ) and the majority of military units once the strike kicked in.

You built too many units. Use the F2 screen and you can see where your money is draining away. Depending on your civic choices and the population of your cities, you get so many units for free. After that, it costs you. There are two costs: maintenance and support. The former is how many units you have, period. The latter is how many units you have outside your borders (so if you have a ton of units off fighting in a war, this costs you).

Now whilst I was struggling to break even, every other nation was sending Frigates to my shores (my greatest naval unit was a galley), they also had great technology and enormous amounts of land.

You got behind in technology because you were spending all your money on unit maintenance.

So how is it that every one else in the world is able to develop so quickly? I assume it's because of poor planning and management on my behalf, but what is it that i'm doing wrong?

Upload a save game and we can critique it.

1. I usually set workers to automate, as I am not sure how to optimize the work.

That's ok but it would better if you figure it out. Specialize your cities. Have some cities that are almost all cottages (with a couple of mines plus developed special resources) and only make buildings that help commerce (e.g., Library). Have other cities that are mostly mines and only make units (and some key buildings such as Barracks and Courthouse).

2. I study the technology tree in a random manner, as I do not know how to utilize it effectively, though I generally go for hunting, sailing, animal husbandry, bronze working, pretty early on.

The most straightforward answer is:
(1) Get Bronze Working
(2) Get key worker techs (Agriculture, Pottery, etc.)
(3) Get Alphabet, Currency, and Code of Laws

Don't go get things such as Iron Working until you've done the above.

(This is just a guideline and will get you started. As you play more you can start experimenting to see what works and how modifications affect the situation.)

3. I build cities next to as many hammers as possible (as I believed that more hammers = faster production, though I feel this is wrong after some reading).

Yes. High hammer tiles are worthless if you don't have enough food to feed the citizens to work them. Also, your cities are limited by their size... if you have 15 hills/mines then that's a lot of wasted tiles if your city is size 5. Planning ahead for when your city is that large (later in the game) is good but keep perspective as the early game is very important. As you saw, if you don't set things up well in your early game then it's pretty hard to come from behind.

4. I try build barracks and granary in every city

Granary is usually good in every city. Barracks is usually not good in every city.

and produce a lot of military units early on as barbarians keep destroying my improvements and it really pisses me off.

Build quality not quantity. Make sure you pay attention to bonuses such as Axemen who get a bonus vs Warriors. Also, Axemen are stronger than Archers. So they are a good choice for early units.

5. I use slavery to hurry production on a lot of things (usually when the number of angry citizens outweigh or equal the happy)

Keep in mind each time you use the whip, you're removing citizens from working your cottages. So, yes, you get production, but at the cost of commerce (research). Thus, whipping is often counter productive. Only do it where it makes sense.

and I allocate research according to whether I make profit or not. Usually it is around 80% so I do not lose any gold per turn, though I guess if I produced less military units I could research faster and theoretically build a stronger military?).

bingo

6. I try to out-culture a nearby enemy city to overtake peacefully.

no comment

7. I ALWAYS fail in building the Pyramids, just how the hell can you win this race?

Chop forests. Try to find Stone and build a quarry. Pick a leader with the Industrious trait. Start early (have your 2nd or 3rd city start on it, not your 5th or 6th city).

8. I usually get impatient during war and send wave after wave of unit to attack (even if they have no chance of winning) in a vain effort to deplete enemy HP for the stronger uints to go in and attack.

Your units dying cause more war weariness which causes unhappiness in your cities. Besides being a waste of hammers you spent to build them.

Edit: One more question that has been bugging me is the use of great people to discover new technology. I find that even when I consume the great person at the expense of new technlogy that nothing is discovered

A great person will generate an amount of beakers depending on your population at the time. If that amount of beakers is not greater than the cost of the tech, then you don't get it right away. That's ok... those beakers are saved and when you decide to research the tech you'll see that you already have a big start on it.

[wodan11]

I see that Wodan is looking at this thread, and he knows far more than I do, so if he says otherwise, I defer to his judgement.

I'm always mixed between feeling flattered and saying "ha!" when someone does this. I guess that's my sense of self-sardonic kicking in.

Anyway, thanks for the compliment.

[Felch]

I play on Noble most of the time, since I'm more interested in playing around than getting my ass handed to me. You're more of an expert on this.

Now, whether you consider expertise at a computer game to be much of a compliment is up to you.

[wodan11]

I play on Noble most of the time, since I'm more interested in playing around than getting my ass handed to me. You're more of an expert on this.

Now, whether you consider expertise at a computer game to be much of a compliment is up to you.

ha.

[Ming]

The real key is not to overexpand to quickly, and build an economey that will support your current and future needs.

Some techs are really good for building your economy.
In the early stages..
Sailing (can give you better trade routes)
Code of Law (allows you to build court houses to lower city maintence costs)
Currency (an additional trade route plus the ability to build markets)
Pottery (allows you to build cottages)

And as you discussed, you are already going after key military techs, and that is important as well... especially animal husbandry because it allows you to improve animal squares.

You also have to improve your science rate... Writing is good to target early since you can build libraries.

You just have to manage your economy. Once you build 4 or 5 cities, your maintance costs will start killing you. Make sure you are running a surplus before adding more cities. Some might argue to expand like crazy, and then put the infrastructure in place later, but for new players, slow and steady growth will probably be better for you.

Wodan mentions "cottage economy" and "specialist economy"... He rightly says that for beginners, the cottage economy route is probably easier to master. Just build cottages where you can, trying to balance food and hammers. The old joke, when in doubt (non resourse sqaure) build a cottage.

As far as your military goes, a big army is expensive. A smaller more superior army is better at first. Also, you don't say How you attack... To attack, beginners should use the Stack of Death method (SoD) This is a large and concentrated stack with a mix of units. You should have collateral damage units (like catapults or tribs) so that you can take down city walls, and then cause damage to multiple units at a time, include units that can attack cities (melee units like swordsmans with the city raider promotion) and some defensive units to defend the stack (like spearman or crossbowman) and probably some double movement units like horse archers to flank an enemies colateral damage units. Experiment a little bit and you will see how many units you need to take good and poorly defended cities.

And if you do take the cities, you don't have to keep them all. Only keep the ones covering valuable resourses, strategic points, and the best cities. Cities with wonders, holy cities, and capitals are almost always worth keeping. Raze the rest or your economy might go down the tubes again. After you take more land, you might need to spend some time building the infrastructure to rebuild your economy, which usually goes into the tank during a war.

Just a few more tips... GOOD LUCK

[Blaupanzer]

Felch: On the one hand he compliments, with the other he takes it away.

Wodan is one of the best for diagnosing and advising.

Definitely do not play above Noble until you figure out cottages, great people, and city placement. Pay attention to which of your cities thrive; place and build more like that in the next game. Wonder races are enhanced by the IND trait, but it is not required. Don't build too many cities until you have Currency and Code of Laws. Without those and their corresponding buildings, you are hard pressed to pay for more than 5 or 6 cities.

Again, welcome aboard.

[Calibos]

Thanks to everyone for your help, I can't wait to get home and have another crack at it.

Ming: The way I usually attack a city was by using a variety of units (usually axeman or swordsman at the start, I do use siege weapons when I am able to but it normally takes me a while since my research is so bad). This stack option you speak of, is that simply placing several units onto the same tile? Or is it a little more complex than that?

Wodan11: Thank you for insight, I can see where i'm going wrong in certain areas now. I could upload the save I was referring to for lolz; as far as I recall, I had just landed a caravel on American shores and they were competing in the Space Race. I guess that's a pretty good indicator of how bad I was actually playing.

How early should I begin a second city? I normally create a warrior or two and a worker just to make sure my improvements and city are secure, once that's done should I get rocking on number 2?

[Felch]

The stack of death is just units on the same tile. For ease of use, you should group them together (there's a button on the bottom to do that). That way you won't have to move each individual unit.

When you attack with the SoD, remember to break it up. Use the units that are most appropriate (seige and city raider to attack cities, horses against enemy seige units, etc.)

[Calibos]

Sweet! Thanks Felch

[Theben]

This stack option you speak of, is that simply placing several units onto the same tile? Or is it a little more complex than that?

Basically it's placing many units on one tile, but the best ones have a mix of units that cover a variety of bonuses vs enemy units: axemen vs melee, swords for cities, spearmen to hold off horse units, and catapults to knock down city defenses/collateral damage on enemy stacks.

If grouped all together (recommended) you should 1st separate the catapults/siege units and have them assault a city 1st. Then you can send the remaining group in as a whole and the computer will pick the best unit to fight for you.

How early should I begin a second city? I normally create a warrior or two and a worker just to make sure my improvements and city are secure, once that's done should I get rocking on number 2?

ASAP. In SP you don't need to build even 1 warrior and most people advise building a worker or workboat (if available) 1st, as the AI will not attack you during the early turns and barbs don't show up until later. However at low levels having another warrior or a scout 1st can help for the "goody hut" dash and allow you to see where you what to place future cities.

I prefer to build 1 warrior, then 2 workers/workboats and then a settler +escort.

One thing to look for is food specials. I never settle an early city down somewhere unless it has 1-2 food specials in its workable area (aka Big Fat Cross or BFC) or it has a critical resource or placement vs the AI.

[ybrevo]

And when it comes to SOD, it is always a good idea to have a unit with attached to it.

Supported by a Great General it works wonders in a fight for a well defended city. It took me a long time to find out how much healing means when at war - and how much effort it takes to put a hypodermic needle into the skin of a wounded war elephant

I look forward to your next threads - because I am in the learning phase as well.

ybrevo

[Felch]

The others have touched on this, but Civ IV brutally punishes you for having too many cities. Early on, three is a good number. Keep an eye on your tax rate, and gradually add cities as you can afford them. I like to aim for a science rate of 50-70 percent. Once I'm making a profit at 70% I build another city. I only break that rule if I need to secure a choke point or key resource from the AI.

As far as city specialization goes, I'd like to hear more from the vets. My cities tend to be more cookie cutter, since I favor peaceful expansion, low difficulty, and long games. That means that hammers generally go to buildings instead of armies, and so I tend to overbuild cities. I also like big empty maps, where I'm not likely to run into the AI until I've had plenty of time to develop.

Just to clarify, are you playing the Vanilla version or BtS? And are you patched to the most recent update? A lot has changed, including the AI, since the first release.

[ybrevo]

Felch

I just recently moved up from Vanilla to BtS (it took a loooong time to ship it for Mac), and it has been a hard time to learn the new goodies - and set another strategy.

Maybe this will work for you as well: Play Noble, turn off espionage, tech brokering, diplomatic victory and maybe a few other things to make it easier to get accustomed to BtS. Go for a marathon game if you have the time - I found it easier to make up for a mistake that way.

And if you like a non-warlike cultural expansion (like I do), try Pericles of the Greeks and concentrate on a specialist economy instead of cottages etc. It worked wonders for me (not THE WONDERS), and I had 3 vassals by 1500 AC due to better techs and quick wars early on. And culture plus religious domination on the continent as well. Those missionaries are great for your economy!!!

Hope it works for you too

ybrevo

[wodan11]

How early should I begin a second city? I normally create a warrior or two and a worker just to make sure my improvements and city are secure, once that's done should I get rocking on number 2?

Theben said "ASAP" to the question on how early to make a Settler. I was going to say that but then thought, no that oversimplifies it. (Below is in the context of single player.)

If you're on the coast and have Fishing, I would start with Work Boat first. Always.

If not, then if you have a tile worthy of improvement AND have the tech to improve it (e.g., wheat plus Agriculture) THEN I would do worker first.

If not and if you have Hunting, then I would probably do scout first.

Otherwise, if you don't have 2 scouts and/or warriors, then make a Warrior.

Lastly, Settler.

After you build the first unit, then repeat the If/then loop, removing whatever you built first from the options.

Understand that expert players have debated this question and there is no one right/good answer. Except to say that if you diddle around making multiple other stuff then you have probably chosen poorly.

[wodan11]

Maybe this will work for you as well: Play Noble, turn off espionage, tech brokering, diplomatic victory and maybe a few other things to make it easier to get accustomed to BtS.

Careful with that, some versions with "no espionage" change it all to culture, which really farks with how culture works. Personally I would just leave it on. You can pretty much ignore it if you want and it shouldn't wack your game too much. Your inherent espionage buildup from courthouses etc will be an adequate defense against the AI using espionage against you.

Tech brokering off is probably a good idea for learning, though leaving it on won't be all that bad.

Anyway this is all on the "single player / custom game" screen Felch.

good luck and have fun!

[St Jon]

Don't bully yourself into playing a level above which you can now play at. I started 1, 2 and 3 on King but got a shock with 4!

Cottage or Specialist are 2 ways to achieve the same end. I tend to use Specialist but that is not because it is better or more advanced.

A lot of it just comes down to blind luck. Ming is right that if you have a tile to work you must have developed it. Farm or Cottage you just must have something.

At Prince the AI will talk to you and make deals. Use them rather than just attack them.

For Gold go for a SPI leader and get a very early religion. It's money for life and a guarenteed GP. Religion is important in BTS as it is a really good way to make friends of even the most hostile of leaders.

[brandonjm8]

just a thought to help you make money faster, research mysticism then polytheism, dont bother with meditation right away, the AI almost always beats you to it, with poly you get the "hindu" religion, if your beat there, after you get the food techs you can get monotheism right afterwards cause you went for polytheism, then confucianism wont be too far away either. then once you got a religion or two, build wonders, get great prophets and build their shrines in your "holy cities" and spread the religion, then build markets/grocers/banks in your holy cities then watch your gold go way up, when you get the hang of that spread your religion to other civs too, they might spread it for you after that if they have no religion, spread it in their capitals and other big cities. as far as military goes, build a defense before offense, try to keep a min 4 units per city and all cities connected so you can move them if someone attacks, use defensive units with defensive promos, then if you can get horses early build horse archers for offense and place them over your "strategic" resources then build them and place the extras in your border cities or close to your rival that doesnt like you, dont place all of them in one side rather the middle so they can go anywhere the AI shows if they do. like above said, keep your science at 50 or higher, only then build more cities, dont necessarily build barracks right away, instead have your cities that have them build the defensive units prior to the settler and escort them then defend the new city, if you have the tech, build forge right away, then granary, then maybe walls or barracks, whatever you want that city to be. what i do from the start is build 2 warriors and a scout and a work boat if needed in your cap, then worker, then settler, send one warrior with your settler, repeat that til you have 4 or 5 good cities, then stop, one worker per city is a good rule to follow at all times too, then build up your cities and defenses, build wonders with your cap or whatever high hammer city you have while the others focus on infrastructure and defense, then start building an offense and adding more cities when needed and possible, you'll learn as you play, just play and figure it out, thats the best way, goodluck, and if you have more questions, just post it and we'll help you.

[Theben]

The others have touched on this, but Civ IV brutally punishes you for having too many cities. Early on, three is a good number. Keep an eye on your tax rate, and gradually add cities as you can afford them. I like to aim for a science rate of 50-70 percent. Once I'm making a profit at 70% I build another city. I only break that rule if I need to secure a choke point or key resource from the AI.

As others have also said in other threads, 20% of 1000 is better than 100% of 100. Keep an eye on total science output, not just the percentages. Actually at Prince level you should be able to have 5 cities prior to Code of Laws/Currency and still command a respectable science output. Just remember to build cottages and/or run scientists in cities with lots of food + libraries/monasteries.

As far as city specialization goes, I'd like to hear more from the vets. My cities tend to be more cookie cutter, since I favor peaceful expansion, low difficulty, and long games. That means that hammers generally go to buildings instead of armies, and so I tend to overbuild cities. I also like big empty maps, where I'm not likely to run into the AI until I've had plenty of time to develop.

With those settings there's nothing wrong with building and in fact it's probably the best way to get ahead of your opponents. Bear in mind that with empty maps the few AIs in it aren't barred from expanding either so that's a double-edged sword.

AFAIK there's 4 basic city specializations:

-Military city. Build barracks & lots of units, plus other buildings as needed for growth/happy/health caps. BFC has mostly mines and farms with few if any cottages. Good location for Heroic Epic and settled generals. Later West Point, Ironworks and Red Cross. Don't forget 1-2 (or more) coastal ones to build a strong navy late game.

-Commerce city. Lots of cottages, with just enough food to hit your happy cap and enough hammers to be useful. Anything that multiplies the effect of money or science goes here. Places near gold/silver/gems or lots of flood plains are good locations... at least a fair amount of grassland. Generally speaking these are where you want Oxford and Wall Street, but other factors may change that for you (like 2 shrines in another city).

-GP Farm. Mostly farms, with some mines for wonder whoring. Runs lots of specialists in order to get lots of Great People. Parthenon somewhere & Epic here. Settled great people should be settled elsewhere as they don't generate GPP themselves... merchants in the Wall Street city and scientists in the Oxford city. Other wonders good for the city are Globe Theater or National Park (if it still has trees).

-Settler city. Needs granary and high production from either farms or mines. Then just builds workers and settlers for awhile. An early specialty that usually later becomes 1 of the above 3.

[Felch]

As others have also said in other threads, 20% of 1000 is better than 100% of 100. Keep an eye on total science output, not just the percentages. Actually at Prince level you should be able to have 5 cities prior to Code of Laws/Currency and still command a respectable science output. Just remember to build cottages and/or run scientists in cities with lots of food + libraries/monasteries.

Good call. I generally don't think to check the total output. I need to get better with the macro-elements of empire management.

[trev]

Sometimes even if fish are available, still best to build worker first before work boats, this way you have both worker and 'city hammers' improving squares simultaneously, gets the city improved quicker and earlier. Worker can pasture horses, cows, mines etc for hammers while city build work boats for food. Gives early flexibility for high hammer output or high food output.

[wodan11]

Sometimes even if fish are available, still best to build worker first before work boats, this way you have both worker and 'city hammers' improving squares simultaneously, gets the city improved quicker and earlier.

Nope. Work boat first will crank out very fast, and then you use the improved fish to crank out the worker. Your city also be able to grow while making the work boat. You also get a high food / high commerce tile to work while makign the worker (which is a huge benefit).

(Caveat: If you are using an old version, Warlords, or a mod, check the city screen to be sure it's working your highest hammer tile to make the work boat. Some versions will work a lake or other tile because they don't have the most recent algorithm to calculate what is the best tile to work. You may need to click the "emphasize hammers" button or even manually set your citizen to work the best tile. A better option of course would be to upgrade so you aren't running an old version. Regardless, if you're running 3.19 none of this should be a problem.)

Worker first will be using an unimproved tile to make the worker. It will keep your capitol at size 1 while doing so. It also is likely working an unimproved forest, meaning no commerce the whole time.

Worker can pasture horses, cows, mines etc for hammers while city build work boats for food. Gives early flexibility for high hammer output or high food output.

Can't make pasture until you have Animal Husbandry, which clearly won't happen for a while. Even mine only helps if you started with BOTH fishing and mining. etc.

[Ming]

As always, it always depends on the land, civ/starting techs, and other factors to determine what actually might be best for you. I almost always favor a worker vs a one shot boat to start. But, If I don't have any food on land squares, or I don't have the techs to use the worker at first, then I will do the work boat.

Can't make pasture until you have Animal Husbandry, which clearly won't happen for a while

Huh... If you start off with hunting as an initial science, you can have AH before your worker is built, at least at normal speed. If I have multiple "animals" in my BFC, and start with hunting, I'll take AH as my first science. It will show my where a strategic resource might be, as well as allowing me to work the animals in the BFC.

[wodan11]

Huh... If you start off with hunting as an initial science, you can have AH before your worker is built, at least at normal speed.

There are only 2 civs which start with both Fishing and Hunting. (Greeks and Vikings)

What you're talking about is a case where it seems best to do Work Boat first, then Worker second.

[trev]

Agriculture is an alternative leadin to Animal Husbandry, but the worker can irrigate if appropiate squares there, pasturing is not essential for a worker first strategy, irrigate and mine can do as well for a worker first strategy.

[rah]

Once I wasn't paying attention and did the normal mining-bronze only to notice when my worker was finished that I had no hills that didn't have forests on them so my worker was idle. DOH

Yeah, if I have multiple pasture squares I may go AH first.

[Ming]

There are only 2 civs which start with both Fishing and Hunting. (Greeks and Vikings)

What you're talking about is a case where it seems best to do Work Boat first, then Worker second.

I guess we will continue to disagree... I feel the worker is more important early than a "single use" work boat.

[Theben]

It all depends... but generally I'll pick a work boat over a worker for 1st build too. It may be single use but it's instantaneous, with a lot of food + commerce.