Fat cross question

[saw]

Just checking to see if I understand this right...

It is pointless to build cottages, farm, mines, etc anywhere past the 21 square cross?

Thanks
Saw

[Jaybe]

Improved RESOURCES beyond the city radius still provide the resources, as do forts (though forts take much longer to build). Cottages, while useless, MAY delay invaders if they decide to stop and pillage. They get some extra gold, you get some extra response time.

[saw]

thanks!
What exactly is an Improved Resource? I assume a mine? but what else migt be?

I further assume it must be connected by road?

Thanks again
Saw

[Jaybe]

"Improved": mine, quarry, plantation, farm, winery*; whatever the resource requires for improvement. Hover the mouse over the resource and it will tell you in the lower left corner of the map view.

Road connection is required for all resources to possess it, unless it is connected by a river (which connects to a road). River connection may require the sailing technology. Again, hovering the mouse may explain that "route is required" to a resource already improved.

* Addendum: add "camp" for ivory & fur access.

[saw]

cool thanks!

[saw]

Another question on the fat cross....

The white circles shows what tiles are being worked by the city correct?

Mine keep changing places with seemingly a mind of thier own, every few turns I have to set them back where I want them.

is this normal or can I make them stick somehow?

Thanks again

[MoonWolf]

I almost always build forts for getting resources outside my BFC (=Big Fat Cross). They're harder to destroy by spies or bombing..

In the city screen on the lower, right part, you have some tools. Here you can active and deactive Citizens Automation. Just hover your mouse over the button and you'll see what it does

[Colm]

If you set your workers yourself, they usually stick there. But, for example, if there is civil unrest, workers are removed from the tiles. After the unrest is over, the town usually chooses the best tile to work on (which may not always be to your liking).
I always click once on the city in the town view and then the best tiles will be worked on.
But sometimes you need to change it. Like for example there is only 1 turn to grow the town but it decides to go to a food-stagnant state.

[saw]

Can someone verify I am doing the calculations right?
if I understand things correctly if I were to build here I would need 1 farm + the pig farm to support the city?

[Theben]

Originally posted by saw
Can someone verify I am doing the calculations right?
if I understand things correctly if I were to build here I would need 1 farm + the pig farm to support the city?

I assume you are trying to figure out how much food you'll need to use each tile at size 19 (desert tile doesn't count). You forgot the fish resource, which would be +4 with boats and a lighthouse. Also I assume you're going to mine the hills and not windmill them, which would also get you extra food.

[Theben]

There are other improvements you can place outside the BFC that are useful. Forts and railroads/roads for starters... you can also build forest preserves next to empty tiles in the hope that forests will grow into adjacent tiles. You can build mines on hills on the slight chance that a resource will be discovered there. And you can build cottages on tiles next to jungle in order to stop them from expanding.

[Solomwi]

You seem to have overlooked the fish. Putting a workboat on it will give you +3 food, for a total of 5 and surplus of 3. Combined with pastured pigs (+3 surplus) and the city tile, that gives you 8 extra food to work with. Adding a lighthouse brings the fish to +4 surplus and neutralizes the other water tiles, allowing you to work all the other tiles with a +3 overall food surplus. That said, the non-forested tundra tiles are pretty much worthless, so I'd remove them from the calculation altogether, which gives you 2 more surplus food, or 1 extra specialist. The forested tundra isn't great, either, as it will only be even remotely useful with the advent of lumbermills.

[saw]

thank you all very much, steep learning curve to this game it seems...I appreciate the forum and members as its nice to have a resource to turn to.

Saw

[Theben]

Originally posted by Solomwi
The forested tundra isn't great, either, as it will only be even remotely useful with the advent of lumbermills.

With a mill and RR it'll make 1 and 3 , which isn't a total loss. Considering that if he Lmills all the forest and mines the hills, he's only going to get ~16 total, I wouldn't knock it. It does have the potential to be a good commerce city.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by Theben


With a mill and RR it'll make 1 and 3 , which isn't a total loss. Considering that if he Lmills all the forest and mines the hills, he's only going to get ~16 total, I wouldn't knock it. It does have the potential to be a good commerce city.

True, didn't mean to imply that it was a total loss, just that it won't be a factor for a while (though now I realize that I'm not sure how late in the game saw is already).

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by Theben
you can also build forest preserves next to empty tiles in the hope that forests will grow into adjacent tiles.

Though forests will only grow in the cardinal directions (NESW, aka 8624 on the keypad). They do not grow from the diagonal.

You can build mines on hills on the slight chance that a resource will be discovered there.

Resources only appear on mines that are worked, so this does not apply outside the BFC. (I raised this issue shortly after Civ4 came out while I was desparately seeking iron, and Solver explained it to me).

[Diadem]

coal / uranium / aluminium can appear anywhere.

Though it's a bit of a long shot to build mines everywhere in the hope of having those already upgraded when they appear

In a warzone, it's still useful to build upgrades to slow enemy advance though. They'll stop and pillage. The fools!

[rah]

Originally posted by Diadem
coal / uranium / aluminium can appear anywhere.

I thought this was only when they're originally exposed. (when you get the tech)

Afterwards I thought they could only be discovered on a worked mine.

[snoopy369]

Yes, Diadem misunderstood the question. If you talk about later randomly generated resources, they only appear on worked mines.

[Diadem]

Ah.

Yes, random spawned resources only appear on worked mines, I agree.

What I meant was that revealed resources can appear anywhere.

[saw]

One more question please, when adding up the food values of the tiles, what I have read is to value the city at +2f....is this on top of, or instead of what ever value the tile already holds?

for instance if I build a city on a 3 food tile (+1f), would I count it as +2f or +3f

Thanks!

[snoopy369]

The city tile is 2 food, unless it is more naturally (if you settle on a corn grassland, for example, you get 3 food from the city tile). If you have one citizen working on an improved plains cow (3f 3h) and the normal city tile (2f 1h) you would have 5f 4h.

[saw]

thank you

[Seedle]

Originally posted by saw
One more question please, when adding up the food values of the tiles, what I have read is to value the city at +2f....is this on top of, or instead of what ever value the tile already holds?

for instance if I build a city on a 3 food tile (+1f), would I count it as +2f or +3f

Thanks!

You should also know that if the city tile always produces at least one hammer and one commerce, but can produce more if the city is founded on a tile that naturally produces more hammers/commerce (for instance, a plains hill gold on a river is 2 hammers and I believe 3 commerce, meaning that if you found a city there, the city square will produce 2 food, 2 hammer, and 3 gold.)

The city tile is 2 food, unless it is more naturally (if you settle on a corn grassland, for example, you get 3 food from the city tile). If you have one citizen working on an improved plains cow (3f 3h) and the normal city tile (2f 1h) you would have 5f 4h.

Two caveats: 1)this does not apply to flood plains, founding a city on a flood plain destroys the flood plain and transforms it to normal desert. 2) It is very rarely a good idea to found on a pasturable/farmable resource.

[snoopy369]

Indeed. Flood plains is like forest, in that it's a feature on a terrain type; it's only removable by settling on it (no chopping for flood plains!) but it does go away (this is more obvious if you go into worldbuilder).

[joncnunn]

Hum, that also gives an incentive to keep a city that was founded on flood plains as opposed to raizing and building the replacement one tile over.

[snoopy369]

Not an incentive per se as much as just making it pointless (since the flood plains isn't giving the city any benefit).

[Diadem]

If you raze a city that was founded on floodplains, the tile will become desert. So yeah, you usually want to keep those cities, unless they are very badly placed.

It's very annoying when you have this perfect spot for a powerhouse commerce city and the AI slams there in the wrong spot, killing your floodplains.

[MoonWolf]

Didn't know about the city turning flood plains to desert... but I hardly raze cities

Originally posted by Diadem
It's very annoying when you have this perfect spot for a powerhouse commerce city and the AI slams there in the wrong spot, killing your floodplains.

Agree... And then they build other cities close by making it hard to "move" the city after you razed it.

[Chopper]

Is it possible to recall workboats from within the fat cross when a barb or AI galley is in the vicinity?