West Point Question (confused)

Lost Soul 1 · September 11, 2006, 21:00

I'm a relative newbie...so maybe I'm missing something pretty obvious.

I've waited for and tried to build the "West Point" National Wonder when it's become available (in the same city as the "Heroic Epic" NW). And I've rejected building any other NWs with the expectation that I'll be able to construct "West Point" one of these turns.

But, after playing 4-5 full games, I still have been unable to do so.

I think what is missing is a "Level 5 experience," but I'm not sure exactly what is required for that:

(1) Is that applicable anywhere in my Civ OR does the "Level 5" unit need to be located in the city where "West Point" is to be built at the time of construction? (I've unsuccessfully tried to move units which has 9/10 XP, 12/15 XP, 5/10 XP, 11/15 XP, 8/10 XP... but with no change in unbuildable status.)

(2) What exactly is a "Level 5" experience and how can I tell which of my units meet or exceed this requirement?

(3) Anything that could be a problem besides my not fulfilling the "Level 5 experience" requirement?

Whatever insight/help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Lost Soul 1

zeace · September 11, 2006, 21:30

A Level 5 unit is one that has 4 promotions. So you need to get a unit with over 15XP. He doesn't have to be in the city in question.

With Warlords it has been changed to a Level 6 unit, which requires 21 XP (I think). It's much harder to get now, although combining it with a military academy and great generals makes it more useful too. Many people have said they use their first great general to promote a unit to Level 6 just so they can be assured of building WP.

If you do get a unit promoted to the desired level early in the game, you should strive to protect him so you can build WP later. It sucks to take your best unit and use him for garrison or mop-up duty, but it's usually worth it to get the WP.

CerberusIV · September 12, 2006, 04:04

Promotions are at 2, 5, 10, 17 and 26 experience points (and go higher). In vanilla CivIV you need a unit with 10 experience to build Heroic Epic and a unit with 17 experience to build West Point.

You only have to have such a unit once in the game. If you get a unit with 17XP before you research Military Tradition and the unit gets killed next turn you should still be able to build West Point later.

You can only get units up to a maximum of 5XP fighting animals and 10XP fighting barbarians in vanilla. So only fighting barbs will get you Heroic Epic but you need to war against another civ for West Point.

The thresholds are raised to 17 and 26 in Warlords but are easier to reach as you can add 20XP to a single unit with a Great General. Warlords also has leaders with the Charismatic trait that reduces the promotions thresholds by 25% (to 13 and
20).

Edit: I play at Prince and Epic speed, not sure if the figures are different on other settings.

Jaybe · September 12, 2006, 12:55

XP required for a great general varies with game speed.

Lost Soul 1 · September 12, 2006, 16:34

Thanks for all the input and clarifications...very much appreciated.

Now, I've got to go and declare war on one of my neighbors to boost my XP some. I'm obsessed, sort of, with finally getting a chance to build West Point.

Lost Soul 1

Calvin Vu · September 18, 2006, 17:58

Originally posted by CerberusIV
You only have to have such a unit once in the game. If you get a unit with 17XP before you research Military Tradition and the unit gets killed next turn you should still be able to build West Point later.

I haven't checked again but I think you need to get the Lev 4/5 unit back to your own territory before you can build the HE/WP. If it dies in enemy territory before making it back to your cultural boundary then that does not count.

joncnunn · September 20, 2006, 19:35

The unit can be in enemy territory, but in any case if your sole level X unit dies before you complete the Wonder you won't be able to build it until you get a new level X unit.

In addition to the Great General being able to give 20 XP to a single unit if that's the only one in the tile, it can be settled in a town to yield all units after him +2 XPs. (If your running a Republic, he'll also yield +3 beakers like any other specalist.)

JackRudd · September 20, 2006, 20:04

Originally posted by joncnunn
In addition to the Great General being able to give 20 XP to a single unit if that's the only one in the tile, it can be settled in a town to yield all units after him +2 XPs. (If your running a Republic, he'll also yield +3 beakers like any other specalist.)

And if you have the Sistine Chapel, he'll yield +2 culture for the same reason.

CerberusIV · September 21, 2006, 04:46

Originally posted by joncnunn
in any case if your sole level X unit dies before you complete the Wonder you won't be able to build it until you get a new level X unit.

Not so in vanilla at least. I have, in the past, built Heroic Epic without any current unit having the necessary 10XP, the unit that did reach that level having been killed many turns previously.

Don't know if they changed anything apart from the required experience level for Warlords

trumbo · September 22, 2006, 00:28

My very first warrior usually gets 10 exp from whacking animals and barbs. When he reaches that point I'll return him to my starting city (sending out a replacement) to wait on the first general. When I combine him with the general, he winds up with 30xp -- so no problem at all with getting Heroic and WP later on the down the line.

If you want to protect your warlord in combat, be sure to give him the withdrawal promotion. Otherwise he's gonna be a dead duck.

Dis · September 22, 2006, 04:59

Why did they raise the west point requirement? It seems almost impossible to get now.

ColdPhoenix · September 22, 2006, 05:40

They raised the requirement because it's a lot easier to get XP now with the introduction of great generals.

Cort Haus · September 22, 2006, 07:36

Originally posted by Dis
Why did they raise the west point requirement? It seems almost impossible to get now.

Not if you slap a general on a 6XP unit.

Minmaster · September 22, 2006, 09:52

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Not if you slap a general on a 6XP unit.

duh...totally forgot about attaching the general for easy high level unit. i was also one of those *****in about the steep requirements for HE/WP.

couerdelion · September 22, 2006, 11:46

Originally posted by Dis
Why did they raise the west point requirement? It seems almost impossible to get now.

Or fight several wars before you reach Renaissance age. More often than not, I'll find it easy enough to build up one unit in time even if I share out the first XP from the GG. Maybe West Point gets delayed a little but it should not be by much.

Dis · September 22, 2006, 16:59

I don't like to fight more than 1 war. It seems to really drag my growth and infrastructure development down. I fight 1 war to expand to get enough territory and cities.

But yeah, I forgot to about attaching the generals to units. The warlords units never seemed that great to me, so I often made them a military instructor in my capitol which according to the graphic, supposedly gives 3 beakers as well.

kbarrett · September 26, 2006, 16:45

If you don't want to fight a war, use a unit to go beat up on barbarian cities ... they tend to crop up mid-game on untouched arctic and antarctic islands ... send a couple of good defensive units with it, and have it kill a barb ... sleep until healed, then kill another barb unit, ect, until it reaches the exp. level needed.

Basically, use the barb city as a training ground, carefully conserving its independence until the unit is a good as you need it to be.

Then smash the city with some other unit, and send your exemplar to your capital ASAP to save it.

Dis · September 26, 2006, 18:10

got 2 great generals last game because the Vikings kept attacking me.

War really slows my economy though. But it seems like you guys war alot. How do you keep your economy and research up? I know, switch civics. It's tough without a spiritual civ. I just had anarchy with a passion.

Quillan · September 26, 2006, 18:22

I don't keep my research rate up DURING war. It drops and there's little I can do about it. However, after the war, it usually climbs significantly higher than it was before. While the percentage may not, 70% of my current commerce production is significantly higher than 90% of the commerce I had before the war.

JackRudd · September 26, 2006, 19:49

Originally posted by Dis
The warlords units never seemed that great to me, so I often made them a military instructor in my capitol which according to the graphic, supposedly gives 3 beakers as well.

Only if you're running Representation.

Dis · September 26, 2006, 19:55

yeah, noticed that my last game.

One thing I do like about warlords, is the info for certain thing is updated constantly.

So if someone researched fascism before you, it doesn't display the fact that you can get a great general from fascism, as someone already got it.

Cort Haus · September 27, 2006, 05:29

Originally posted by Dis
yeah, noticed that my last game.

One thing I do like about warlords, is the info for certain thing is updated constantly.

So if someone researched fascism before you, it doesn't display the fact that you can get a great general from fascism, as someone already got it.

That's good, I didn't realise that.

Dis · September 27, 2006, 07:14

I love it. And when a new tech list comes up for research, if you don't own any wonders that will go obsolete with the tech, it won't display those wonders will go obsolete. So when you hover over chemistry, if you don't own the partheon, it won't say that it will go obsolete with this tech. But if you do own it, it will be in red saying it goes obsolete.

And as I mentioned, if fascism hasn't been researched by anyone else, it will indicated you will get a great general if you are the first to research it.

And I mentioned the great generals will indicate it will give 3 beakers if you are running a representative goverment. But if not, it doesn't show it.

Warlords has a lot of nice little touches like that. I'm happy with it.

My last game I was only in one short war at the very in. No great general. And I conquered 2 cities. Crappy game though. I got a time victory.

eris · September 27, 2006, 10:50

Not only does it mention whether or not you will get a Great General with Fascism, it does things like metion or not if you will found a religion with a given tech, or a Great Person with Music or Economics. Very slick.

Surprised me when I was looking at going for Philosophy and the display did not mention founding Taoism. Then I remembered seeing the notice earlier about Taoism being founded and things started making sense.

spride · October 5, 2006, 16:16

Actually, I think that came about with patches, because I'm still running vanilla Civ and it tells me whether I'm going to found a religion if I research that tech.

Thoth · October 5, 2006, 23:05

Originally posted by CerberusIV

You only have to have such a unit once in the game. If you get a unit with 17XP before you research Military Tradition and the unit gets killed next turn you should still be able to build West Point later.

Note that in addition to the XP you also need to promote the unit before you can build HE/WP. Once the unit is promoted it's expendable.

Edit: I play at Prince and Epic speed, not sure if the figures are different on other settings.

The XP requirements for building the military small wonders is the same regardless of game speed.

In Warlords the number of XP required to get a Great General increases by a factor of 2 at Epic and a factor of 3 at Marathon.