America?

[Will9]

I seen many people say America should not be in the game (due to the fact that they have only been around 240 years, 1 month, 1 week, and 4 days) while they say nothing about the Aztecs or Incans (which were only around half the time as America). I have no problem not putting a banana (even when I usally do) because I want no screwing in the pole.

[Dis]

I think we've had this discussion before.

It's not necessarily the length of time, but the fact that america got it's independence from another nation.

But how can you not include america? America kicks ass.

[Will9]

Here is a post of mine from another thread.

Originally posted by Locutus

Familiar is different things for different people, that's my whole point. I personally think it's ludicrous the Zulus and Americans are in the game, they have absolutely nothing to do with world history as covered in Civilization -- the Zulu are not familar to me at all and the Americans only in the sense of mid- to late-20th century history (post-1940). The Khmer and Ethiopians OTOH most certainly are familiar to me.

Wow, suprising words coming from someone who could be living in the 2nd or 3rd Reichs if it wasn't for America. America really has been a major power since the Spanish-American War (1898?-1899?). America saved the world in both world wars. By the way,
USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

[Dis]

good point. If there is no america in the game, then there should only be 1 civ to choose from. Germany. Because everything would be german.

[dregor]

This thread is stupid and pointless, really it's beneath this community.

[Dis]

yeah it belongs in off topic. It'd be right at home there.

[Brael]

I can honestly say I've never read one of those arguments about should America be included in Civ but if I were argueing against it I would see myself saying that the majority of Civ takes place before America existed and that it shouldn't exist for that reason. On the otherhand, I like America in Civ and would say it should be there since the Civs are of the greatest civilizations in history (either through longevity or power at sometime in history) and America definatley fits that category. Also, technically when you think about it most civs haven't existed as great empires for the majority of the time Civ covers... just look at Rome. Civ spans 6000 years, the Roman empire itself went from 44 BC (crowning of Julius Caesar) to 476 AD (Death of the final emperor). Or if you want to stretch it you could say that Rome existed from 753 BC (founding of Rome) to 1453 AD (Ottomans taking Byzantinium). Even if you go with the much longer lived empire thats only 2206 years or roughly 1/3 of the time Civ covers.

So ya, America should be in.

[johnmcd]

Total nonsense, and the World War arguement diminishes the country you claim to be proud of.

[Adagio]

Civs that should be in Civ should depend on how they have infleunced the world, not by how long time they have existed

[LordShiva]

This poll is invalid

[Qwertqwert]

I don't think any of the choices are right. We should have 2 American Civs. Old America with the 13 colonies and New America with all 50 States. But I guess since you disagree you hate America Will9.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Dis
good point. If there is no america in the game, then there should only be 1 civ to choose from. Germany. Because everything would be german.

Actually, it would be Soviet.

And Indian

[Will9]

Originally posted by Qwertqwert
I don't think any of the choices are right. We should have 2 American Civs. Old America with the 13 colonies and New America with all 50 States. But I guess since you disagree you hate America Will9.

Qwertqwert, NEVER ACUSE ME OF HATING AMERICA.. If your posts were less frequent I would put you on my ignore list. Now how do know I disagree I had just never thought of it. I think it is great idea. Maybe Old America's UU could be the the Continental. Repl Rifleman it has the same strength, but is slightly cheaper and faster.

I'm suprised at how many people think America shouldn't be in the game, but the Incans and ans Aztecs should be in the game.

[Will9]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Actually, it would be Soviet.

And Indian

When I said 2nd or 3rd Reich I meant more likly the 2nd. If America had not entered WW2 the Soviets might have defeated Hitler. If America had not entered WW1 the Central Powers probably would have won.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Will9
When I said 2nd or 3rd Reich I meant more likly the 2nd. If America had not entered WW2 the Soviets might have defeated Hitler. If America had not entered WW1 the Central Powers probably would have won.

Imagine if the whole world were Austro-Hungarian

[Ka Plewy]

Yes, and if wishes were fishes, we'd all cast nets in the sea.

Or, to put it directly, what's the point? If a certain archduke hadn't been assasinated there might not have been a WWI. A discussion of what constitutes a valid civilization for CIV shouldn't diminish other civs in order to validate a reason for existence.

[Smellycowsquid]

No ? I believe that is the impact- not really how long it survived...It's kinda of mix-hard to put into words. I believe Germans could have probbaly beat the Soviets if it hadn't been for the U.S. entering the war.

[Qwertqwert]

Originally posted by Will9


Qwertqwert, NEVER ACUSE ME OF HATING AMERICA.. If your posts were less frequent I would put you on my ignore list. Now how do know I disagree I had just never thought of it. I think it is great idea. Maybe Old America's UU could be the the Continental. Repl Rifleman it has the same strength, but is slightly cheaper and faster.

I'm suprised at how many people think America shouldn't be in the game, but the Incans and ans Aztecs should be in the game.

Settle down, it was a joke.

I also believe the people who voted no America but yes Incans and Aztecs were joking, or atleast most.

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Dis
good point. If there is no america in the game, then there should only be 1 civ to choose from. Germany. Because everything would be german.

Better than being American

/me waits patiently for the barrage of impotent yankee chest-beating

[monkspider]

Originally posted by LordShiva


Imagine if the whole world were Austro-Hungarian

[MMC]

Imagine if the whole world was British... oh, it was for a while.

/me goes back to trying to find a loophole in the Declaration of Independance that could invalidate it.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man


Better than being American

* Six Thousand Year Old Man waits patiently for the barrage of impotent yankee chest-beating

you are an american.

[MoonWolf]

Or if the weather was different in 1066, the Normans who where going to attach the Anglo-Saxons in UK would not be delayed by the storm. That would have meant victory for the incoming Viking/ Norwegian force who actually lost instead of fighting with exhausted Anglo-Saxons. So UK should have been Norwegian, meaning USA should be French/ Spanish (no, wait, Viking settled there as well, so if they didn't leave again or where kicked out if the native Indians, not sure about this, USA and UK would have been a part of Norway today).

Can we please leave out of the discussion that the world could be German/ Soviet?

I'm not voting on this one as it's missing vote for banana nation and some people here seems a bit too touchy. I agree though that USA should be in a game like Civ.

[Nugog]

Originally posted by LordShiva
This poll is invalid

[gradea]

Both Italy and Germany are actually YOUNGER then America. So if you ditch America, Mr Bizmark comes with us.

The only empires that can claim an existance from near-prehistoric to modern are China and Egypt.

Russia has alternativly been conqured and split at varying times, so they don't count as having an old country. In fact, modern Russia is only ~550 years old.

England, the one country that ACTUALLY managed to control the world (or more most of it). It wasn't really seperate from France untill what, the thirteenth century? Seven-eight hundred years, not bad, but not even a milenium?

Now france is pretty old, about 1,200 years. Still not in the same leauge as China and Egypt, but alright.

Greece, the place western culture began, the source of all we are today. Modern Greece began its live in 1821. Ancient Greece was conqured by Rome circa 150 BC. So yeah, why do they get in?

Rome has already been covered.

So thats three civilizations. Hope no one likes big games.

As a side note, theres no reason to get nasty, a claim that America is too young to be in the game, while pointless, is not an insult. Saying we shouldn't be but GERMANY should is just stupid though...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Originally posted by Dis


you are an american.

Unfortunately

[fed1943]

And you may take out Egypt, because nowdays Egypt has nothing to

do with the old one.

So,just one civ remain: China.

The game would be annoying.

Best regards,

[Prussia]

I don't see a problem with America being in the game, even though this is a stupid poll which can only end badly in one side claiming the other are ex-patriots and the other claiming the first side are fanatics for "liberty, freedom, and justice for all."

But anyway, Civ4 does not distinguish which countries should be in and which shouldn't be by age. It all depends on World influence. ALL of the countries in Civ4 had major World influence, some in odder ways than others.

For example, the Incas and Aztecs had influence because when the New Worlders came along, they saw that there was gold in the New World. So then a frenzy of colonization began, as well as a frenzy of conquering all of the natives and taking their wampum.

Most countries had cultural dominance over each other, and the Malinese and Zulu were major powers in Africa. The celts were one of the most famous barbarian tribes, the Vikings are obvious, Carthage became a major cultural and economical influence over the meditteranean before Roman dominance, the Greeks invented many things we use today (DEMOCRACY! WOO!). All of the Asian countries had major positions throughout history, including recently with vast technology advancements (Ahem...Video Games...). China was part of WW2, so was Japan, Mongolia conquered the entire region, and so on.

Almost all of the civs have complete justification for being in this game, and I think there placement was fine.

Oh, and by the way, India got it's independence from another nation too. So if you are going to exclude us, kiss your precious Gandhi good-bye.

[johnmcd]

I'd like it if the game started with a set of super ancient civs, even just peoples like the Clovis and such. At various critical moments in development - writing, bronze working, great conquests, adopting a religion etc there would be a chance of civilsation schism which would create splinters in the empire. You could choose which part of the empire to control (the splinter may even just be an army, or a spontaneously generated settler in some cases, making the decision easy) but it would allow you to select a new name for you civ from the various powers of that era.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Prussia
Oh, and by the way, India got it's independence from another nation too. So if you are going to exclude us, kiss your precious Gandhi good-bye.

You talking to me

BTW, Happy Indian Independence Day