Supreme Ruler 2010 thread... where?

[andyiam]

I could of sworn there was a pretty detailed thread around here on Supreme Ruler 2010, with some posts from the development team, but I can't find it in any searches anymore. I faintly recall reading something about what their next project would be, but now that I go back to read more it escapes me.

I've been spending more hours than I can count on SR2010, and I'm surprised that it doesn't have a bigger following on Apolyton. Seems like the kind of strategy game a lot of the players around here would like - deep, detailed, that sort of thing.

Though now I guess most people are saving their pennies for Civ IV

[EPW]

It was moved to the Archive for some reason.

Edit: Or maybe not, I can't find it with the search function....

[Gamecube64]

It went *POP* when Tassi's account was deleted.

[George Geczy]

Yes, it appears the thread suffered the mysterious disappearance syndrome often found with internet data

I was actually worried that somebody didn't want me here, but I have been informed that the thread was not purposefully removed.

(Interesting footnote: on a different forum, which shall remain nameless, I was actually accused of "trying to get free publicity" by showing up and discussing our game in the appropriate topics... I tend to take a very different view, and I wonder why there are not more dev's out here in the middle of their communities. The forum communities represent the customers, players, fans, in other words the people that keep us dev's alive - it should be a no-brainer to get out here and get involved in answering questions and listening to feedback. End of rant...)

In any case, it's a pity that the old Supreme Ruler 2010 thread got zotted, it had some really good ideas and feedback in it. I had it all bookmarked, but hadn't printed it out yet, so I lost a few good ideas along with the thread...

For those of you who haven't heard much about our game, well, we do seem to be a well kept secret :-) We're available through a number of online resellers, and in a couple of North American retail stores (EB Games US, Fry's, Future Shop Canada). There are a number of online and print reviews to help get an idea of the game, for example one of the most recent ones:
http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=27020

We're continuing to work on updates and new content for SR2010, incorporating feedback and suggestions, and in fact will be releasing a new free update package ("Update 3") within the next few weeks.

End of sales pitch :-)

-- George.

- George Geczy, Lead Programmer, BattleGoat Studios, www.supremeruler2010.com

[Qilue]

Developer posts are always welcome. How else are we players to know about upcoming games.

George Geczy posts.

[Protra3211]

I have seen at a EB store in Rhode Island. Have been playing on and off . Im not very good at the game yet but will give it time.
New guides for Supreme Ruler are on fan sites which are a great help. Manuel is clear put skilled players advice is worth taken into acount.
Like the turn base option in the game. Is the AI better in real time?

[Unspeakable Horror]

Originally posted by Gamecube64
It went *POP* when Tassi's account was deleted.

When? Why?
What did he do this time?

[andyiam]

Like the turn base option in the game. Is the AI better in real time?

I haven't tried the turn based too much yet, I usually play in 'real time' with a lot of use of the PAUSE key

In some places they AI is great and devious and hard, in others it gets a little too happy sitting back in defense. Hopefully that will get improved in a future release.

Hey George, great having you on board (who wouldn't want a developer to show up and give the real inside scoop? ) Is there a new release coming soon? And what are you guys working on next?

I think Supreme Ruler 2010 is the sleeper title of 2005...

[George Geczy]

Originally posted by andyiam Is there a new release coming soon? And what are you guys working on next?

Hi - thanks for the kind comments.

Yes, we're just finishing work and testing on what we call "Update 3". A number of tweaks and various fixes, but also a few new features based on user feedback - better missile handling, AI diplomacy improvements, more Cabinet advisor information, etc. The AI's military response has also received some changes, with more offensive use of force in many situations. We're also adding content with a new mission and some scenario updates.

Update 3 should be out shortly, though we don't have an exact date yet (dependent upon testing results).

Regarding future projects, we're tossing around a few ideas. We've had a lot of community suggestions - future wars, Cold War, WWII, 19th Century, even Roman Empire We've pretty much ruled out the Roman Empire (the SR2010 engine doesn't fit well for that time frame), but we are looking at both near-future and recent-past projects. And there is a lot of interest in a WWII version, given that our game engine simulates a lot more of the "total picture" than the other WWII RTS and wargames out there (ie economy combined with diplomacy combined with military elements).

I think Supreme Ruler 2010 is the sleeper title of 2005...

Thanks - though I would have preferred to be something other than a "sleeper" title, but being a strategy game we have to take what we can get!

-- George.

[rah]

When informed that the earlier thread dissappeared, I apologized for any inconvience and promised George that I would top the thread when it was restarted.

Promise kept

[robwr]

Hi Guys - I just came to Apolyton to find out more about Civ4 (and lots of great info here, btw!), but then I also notice you cover some of my other favorite games - GalCiv etc. But I didn't see much coverage for my current fav (at least until Civ4 is out), which is Supreme Ruler 2010. Until I found this one thread buried here so deep that the air is geting stale!

SR is a great game, with lots of Civ-like goodness (though admittedly it is rather more complex and wargame-like on the military side), I think it should have its own section like some of the other games do.

Sure it isn't an "xth" sequel or such, but every good strategy game has to start somewhere! In my opinion this is a must-have for strategy fans - and from what I've read in the other threads about new features in Civ4, I'm pretty sure a few of them were either "borrowed" from SR, or else came to be by miraculous coincidence.

[George Geczy]

Thanks robwr, I'm not too worried about not having a 'section' here on Apolyton, we do have our own forum for players to share info and get updates specifically on SR2010 at www.bgforums.com .

I know that our availability in much of the world, Europe in particular, is still very limited - a full European release (with translations to French, German, Spanish, Italian, and a couple of others) is planned and being worked on, but I don't have the ETA for its release yet. Given that, and the fact that this is our first release, I can accept the fact that we "fly under the radar" of a lot of people

When our earlier thread disappeared I did look around a bit for it, and thanks rah for the assistance, because as I mentioned we got some very good comments and ideas from various users of this forum. In the next few weeks we are going to start early planning for our future projects, and hopefully I can again tap onto the wealth of opinion in the Apolyton community to get some thoughts and ideas.

This actually flows in to your comments about Civ4 features - I really don't know if any Firaxis folks looked at SR2010, though I would be surprised if they didn't - the strategy genre is built upon evolution and expansion of the great ideas of the past. As part of planning our own future projects, we're certainly going to buy and play Civ4, just as we've bought nearly every major strategy game made in the last two decades. In SR2010 you'll see elements from Civ, SMAC, Panzer General, even Sim City. I'm sure nobody would accuse us of being a clone of any of these games (in fact, originality is one thing most reviews rate us very highly on), but there are just some elements that get introduced and 'click' with strategy players.

In our own case we've been promoting many SR2010 features since long before our release - for example, this developer diary from a year ago talks about a number of our innovations:
http://www.wargamer.com/articles/sup...10_devdiary_4/
There's actually two points in that article where what I say very closely matches some recent Firaxis press points on Civ4. Did they look at our work? I'd be flattered if they did, but they may have just come up with the same ideas on their own.

I know I'm biased, but I think SR2010 makes a number of innovations for strategy games - some of these we're still working on getting the kinks out of, but if nothing else I hope our product will inspire other games and game designers to 'borrow' our ideas and take them even further.

-- George.

[rah]

It would be impossible for Apolyton to have a forum for every good game out there. The other games forum was created to service that need. Unfortunately at first it lacked the traffic of other forums here and didn't receive a lot of attention.
SO we created a few forum games and traffic has increased 10 fold. While some may complain that they've taken over the forum, they have generated lots of interest in other games discussions.
It is now one of the more popular and highly trafficed forums here.
So I don't think that any other game discussion is buried here. Especially when it's topped.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by Gamecube64
It went *POP* when Tassi's account was deleted.

Is this true? What happened rah?

I must admit I haven't seen Tass of late, but I never suspected any of this.

By the way, great work on topping this thread.

And to developers, the scenario you're projecting will never happen. The world will not fall apart in five year, or in ten for that matter.

[snoopy369]

I presume it's not intended to be entirely realistic ...

[George Geczy]

And to developers, the scenario you're projecting will never happen. The world will not fall apart in five year, or in ten for that matter.

Of course, the first answer is "it's a game"

However, we've heard this before as a criticism of Supreme Ruler 2010, and the long answer is that it's not entirely impossible. Improbable and unlikely, yes, but not beyond the realm of possibility.

Recently a number of good books have been published on the history of WWI and its buildup, and one thing that everyone agrees upon is that in 1910 nobody expected the world (or Europe at least) to pretty much fall apart before the decade was over. After all, everyone in power in Europe was pretty much related to everyone else in some way, the major dynasties had their own survival to worry about, and nobody wanted millions of their productive citizens dead over "some damned foolish thing in the Balkans".

And except for some with a high level of paranoia, most people in 1935 didn't expect the world to come falling apart again in a few years. Neville Chamberlain remains controversial, but he certainly wasn't a fool - and he honestly believed that "the world will not fall apart" right up until it started happening.

When we talk about present day, there are already a lot of people that discuss the possibilities of a major collapse in many world institutions, due to two reasons: 1) Oil demand starting to outstrip supply as developing nations grow, and 2) Massive US debt and trade deficits.

One of the catalysts of the Supreme Ruler 2010 storyline is the switch by OPEC to Euros from US Dollars for the sale of oil. This has extensively been discussed in financial and economic papers and journals - and they all point out the the sale of oil in US dollars creates a huge artificial demand for dollars (and dollar reserves) that wouldn't exist otherwise. There is no consensus on the result of a switch to Euros for oil, but predictions range from a major US recession to a massive collapse of US financial systems. Clearly, SR2010 puts its bets on the collapse possibilities.

Doing a few google searches for articles on the topics of "petro euros", the US debt, and the US trade deficit result in a collection of possibilities that make SR2010 look all too plausable... in fact, it almost seems that the only thing holding the whole system together is that nobody wants to "throw the first stone", since in the end there everybody would lose in one way or another.

-- George.

[Protra3211]

Just starting to get into Supreme Ruler. Im a TBS fan -CtP2 Civ3 and SuperPower the first one .
Im glad that their is a TBS option in the game. Very complex at first but the manuel and text guides in the game are a big help as im slow to learn at first but once im playing I pick up on things .
The fans are into mod making which is a good sign as they can take the game up to the next level. Look at Hearts of Iron 1 & 2 from Paradox .The mods have gone beyond what the programers dreamed of . A major mod was used in a platinum release of one of the games as a result of their work.
Hope that Supreme Ruler will be around for awhile and will keeps getting beter.

[andyiam]

Hope that Supreme Ruler will be around for awhile and will keeps getting beter.

I second that!

I hear that a few people are working on mods, and the developers have posted some step-by-step guides on their forum, but it sure is a lot of work to do a Supreme Ruler mod from scratch - I've looked at the including editor, it's easy enough to edit an existing scenario, but it takes a lot of work to design something from scratch! I guess it just goes to show you how much there is in the game when you learn that it takes about a dozen different files to make up a single scenario - the map, the military units, the starting diplomacy stuff, the economic and resources that everyone starts with, etc.

SR2010 does give you a bit of a learning curve to start with, but I found the ministers did a pretty good job when I wasn't paying attention to something (especially production and social stuff), and the game is certainly worth the effort - a lot of depth.

About the storyline stuff, I really like the individual stories attached to each scenario and region - some of them get a little far fetched, but others sound like I just read them in the newspaper yesterday

[Protra3211]

Been looking up Supreme Rulers web site for updates.
They are working on their 3rd patch with a realease time early October.
More AI changes to make the game better. Its great to see them still working on improvements after release.
Pardox is noted for that now Battlegoat is anyther Co. that can be trust to support their products. Way to go.

[DRoseDARs]

"Update 3" has been released!
http://www.bgforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6112

[andyiam]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs
"Update 3" has been released![/url]

I got the update today, and I have to say that it adds some great new bits - the "more aggressive" AI military offense is particularly interesting, they've been able to provide a heated challenge on maps where the AI used to sit back in a defensive mode.

I like the new missiles support too, though I have to admit that missiles are one of the more complex areas of Supreme Ruler 2010 to work with. I can see why most games ignore them entirely. But overall the new changes make them easier to handle.

And even a new mission scenario too - great work Battlegoat!

[DRoseDARs]

I just wish Superpower 2 weren't lying in a coma...

[George Geczy]

The fans are into mod making which is a good sign as they can take the game up to the next level. Look at Hearts of Iron 1 & 2 from Paradox .The mods have gone beyond what the programers dreamed of .

Yes, there are players starting to make mods, and we've started a section on our forum to provide support for this and even are posting an online "workshop" to explain how our scenario design and editing systems work.

We have noted, however, that making mods in Supreme Ruler 2010 is a bit difficult, since most of the design and editing tools are not 'user friendly'. As well, SR2010 stores a lot of information - economic, production, terrain, military, etc, and so the mod tools can get a bit overwhelming.

In fact, getting back to the earlier comments in this thread about Strategy games learning from each other, this is one area where we'll be looking at what Firaxis have done with Civ4 - they have made a big deal out of the Civ4 mod-ability and mod-tools provided, and so we will certainly be taking a look at their approach to this and seeing if there are ideas that we can use in our own future work.

Hope that Supreme Ruler will be around for awhile and will keeps getting beter.

Thanks, we plan to be around for a while! As noted above, we have just finished "Update 3", another free update including new content and features as well as the usual tweaks and fixes. We're already planning "Update 4" with more of the same.

About the storyline stuff, I really like the individual stories attached to each scenario and region - some of them get a little far fetched, but others sound like I just read them in the newspaper yesterday

In some parts of the world, the stories pretty much write themselves (ie Middle East, India/Pakistan, China, Africa, etc)

I got the update today, and I have to say that it adds some great new bits - the "more aggressive" AI military offense is particularly interesting

Our new, "more aggressive" Military AI has been receiving some great reviews by players on our forum - it can provide quite a challenge in many scenarios. And we hope to add even more to this area in the next update.

-- George.

- George Geczy, Lead Programmer, BattleGoat Studios

[andyiam]

So, I've been having lots of fun playing all sorts of scenarios with the latest update - great work, BTW - so, when is the next update gonna be out

But seriously, I love how you guys are supporting and adding to the game after release, I hope Firaxis take note and do the same with Civ4 (and not just put new features into an extra-cost 'expansion' pack)

[George Geczy]

... so, when is the next update gonna be out

But seriously, I love how you guys are supporting and adding to the game after release, I hope Firaxis take note and do the same with Civ4 (and not just put new features into an extra-cost 'expansion' pack)

The question of (free) Updates versus Expansion Pack tends to be based on a lot of factors, including of course the Publisher's desire to make extra money

We've decided not to go the expansion pack route, and instead will continue to release new content as part of our regular Updates. For Firaxis I would think it boils down to whether the fans think they are getting good value or not - if people believe that the extra content is worth the money being asked for it, then there's nothing really wrong with releasing the content as an expansion pack. The alternative many other developers do is to simply abandon the title soon after release, and move on to their next project.

It's one of those philosophical questions, there is no right or wrong answer

With regard to Supreme Ruler 2010, yes we are already working on (free) Update 4, and will almost certainly even have an Update 5 after that. At the same time, there has been a lot of demand for a sequel version, with many ideas that would require significant engine changes to accomodate... in short, there's still a lot of development and ideas left in the world of SR2010

-- George.

[Standup]

OK I'm curious. I saw some screenshots somewhere and i dismissed it as yet another RTS game. Reading the game discussion it looks like its much more.

Don't suppose someone could do a quick summary of the game and game mechanics ? Even a mini review before i start trying to find it in the UK - actually i'm assuming it's even been released ?

[George Geczy]

Originally posted by Standup
OK I'm curious. I saw some screenshots somewhere and i dismissed it as yet another RTS game. Reading the game discussion it looks like its much more.

Don't suppose someone could do a quick summary of the game and game mechanics ? Even a mini review before i start trying to find it in the UK - actually i'm assuming it's even been released ?

Definitely more than an RTS

There are a number of reviews on the web at places like:

http://www.wargamer.com/reviews/supr...10/default.asp

http://www.worthplaying.com/article....20&mode=thread(%22der=0

http://wham.canoe.ca/pc/2005/07/18/1136935.html

It's released, but not widely available in retail stores in Europe and the UK at the present time. In the UK we've heard good things about the following reseller that carries it, Strategic Plus Software:

http://www.sps-systems.co.uk/trolley...ex.htm#SUWI241

And, before the end of the year we'll be releasing what we call "Update 4", our fourth free update featuring new missions, equipment file updates, and sundry additions/fixes. Supreme Ruler 2010 has a 'Check for Updates' feature that will automatically download the latest available updates and add them to the game.

-- George.

George Geczy, Lead Programmer, Supreme Ruler 2010

[The Rusty Gamer]

I've got the demo but I'm too overwhelmed by it all frankly.

[Ljube]

Five months since my last post and the world hasn't fallen apart.

[laurentius]

dont worry ljube - we're working on it