The second continent

[rofloflo]

The setting is probably quite common

Archipelago , 2 main islands, 6 civs remaining.

I have one of the 2 continents for myself. And im up to the point where i need to make a move and start conquering the second one. I have only conquest possible for a victory.

What is a good way to launch an attack on a second continent?

I am currently in 1570 AD, turning to industrial age. Will get railroads in about 15 turns.

Up to now, i am leaning towards 3 ships to bombard a city and 1-2 ships to unload troops and get a foothold by claiming one city. However this is all assumption as ive never tried the water game up to now.

any suggestions appreciated. Details are most welcome

[ElConejo]

I find that I will not leave my harbors with anything less than 3 to 4 transports fully loaded with my best ATTACK unit. If I feel that the counter attack will be feirce I may bring 2 or 3 of my best defensive unit. But no more than that. anywhere between 2 to 5 frigates or destroyers for escorts, as the computer never attacks my incoming invasions. I choose a site in which my units land on a Hill or Mountain tile so that I can reep the benefits of the defensive bonus during the turn lost to disembark. I hit the city I landed a tile away from with every thing I have and send my transports home (like Cortez's men, my troops have no choice but to fight to win). Once I take the city I then attempt to send my Stack of Death (SoD) out to my enemies most prized strategic resources to cut off any attempts to build a counter attack army. Then I will come back with my transports fully loaded again with my best attack unit and lay waste to my enemy's empire.

Good luck!

[vmxa1]

What are the units you will be facing? Since you will be getting rails up soon you can defend with few troops and some cannons.

I would prefer to go with an army or two. If you have only caravels you will only be able to load a two man army and fill it after you land.


Anyway I prefer to use a settler and land on a hill. Found a town and rush a wall and then a barracks. Send over as many of your best defenders as you can and some cavs.

Do not send cannons as you will not have enough shipping to send over anything by troops. Cannons can come later.

Withstand the counter attack and pick off any weaken units that you can with cavs. Once that is done, start your offensive. If you can muster a leader during that time make a cav army to use on the attack.

[rofloflo]

I will opt for the landing on a hill and building a city , considering i am at peace with all these nations.

might have enough time to actually push a considerable force before they realize im not there for vacations.

I currently have 3 armies, and the military building is being built for more armies too. So a cavalry army might be possible.

[vmxa1]

That should be great. I really like to have one or two armies of defenders, if I can. So if you have Rifles, one army of them will go a long way.

Note that landing on their cultue borders you will get the declare or leave. You will not be attacked if you land with armies, until you found the town.

Once the town is made, they will come hard. The AI does not attack armies in the field before bombers under most conditions.

After you see that you will be able to hold the town with out the cav armies, send them out to pillage. This will cause (hopefully) starvation and pop reduction. If you feel you can take them down without pillaging, then great.

Usually I have declared on them just before I enter their border at sea. This is the way to avoid a rep hit, if you have been maintaining your rep. I pull right up to theborder and stop, so I have full movement the next turn, unless I cannot reach in one turn.

[rofloflo]

One thing to note,

I have rights of passage with at least 2 of those civs.

The dutch are at war with all the civs on the continent too.
What's best ? Hit the weakest one among the rest or join them all in the fray against the dutch, considering i have at least one of them with ROP.

I could use some of the dutch cities to install myself appropriately before hitting the rest of the other civs.

A shame remote desktop is too slow to load a game cause i would love to give more details and a ss so you could give better insight on how to proceed. ( im at work )

Im pretty sure this situation will come again in many games so i prefer knowing how to do it from start. Up to now all your suggestions have been more than helpful.


oh and btw vmxa , the avatar you boast is one of my favorite games. Gotta love building up levels while waging mutliple genocides lol

[vmxa1]

I am actually going in Varn right now.

As to RoP, I do not abuse them. However you can land on their soil and advance next to your invasion point, if one is accessible from their lands.

It is hard to know from where I sit, but I am thinking that you do not need any help. If you are concerned about them joining against you and have some thing to trade for an alliance, go for it.

A tech that will not hurt you is always good. No money or lux though. I do not like to help them with those items.

[rofloflo]

Varn is pretty much the end

If you have blasters ( which kinda spoils the whole idea of getting level 100 ) , you will be done in no time.

A thing to note, all the MM series is going downwards after 6th installement.

As for the second continent, im pretty sure i will prevail. I will probably try 2 or 3 different strategies , just like the jungles galore thread. And end up mixing a bit of both .

thanks again for all the input and expect yet another generic thread by yours truly sometime soon

[inca911]

I'd use the Dutch to gain a foothold. You don't even have to actually fight the Dutch if you prefer. Just wait for their cities to fall and the shrinking culture will give you the gaps you need to found your own cities, preferably on resources/luxuries you didn't have....

[Addled Platypus]

I always choose the city closest to my cultural boundry

then build a temple then harbor ( to build all the neat things), usually rushed

If one of the other civs is an ally, they might delcare war agaisnt the same civ for a minor tech..I have had success with this many times

[vmxa1]

I tend to not even bother with blaster except to bust the controller to the queen. Even in games where I do a level 1 or train only once.

I probably played the game to the end dozen times. I like VII and VIII as well. The one player solo in VIII is a nice change.

Got a patch from Mok that finally lets me play them on XP. It also includes the fixes for 1.1 and 1.2, so no doors are locked. He made it so you can toggle tun in VI, just like VII/VIII and control turn around or not on exit.

[vmxa1]

No real need for a temple. You are going to take all of the cities and yours will be manned for quite some time and won't flip, even on sid.

Harbor is needed, IF you will have access to open water or do not have airports. I have seen so many times that I popped in a harbor and they have me culturally cut off, so I could not get to my trade route.

So it could come to pass that you do not need a harbor there, depends.

[Golden Bear]

I have to admit that I thought that things died after MMIII-IV. I tried the laters but could not get going.

My fav continent invasion is to find the one square they missed and build a port/airport there and over populate it until I am ready to, ahem, visit my neighbors.

Golden Bear

[rofloflo]

My favorite will always be Might and Magic 3 , isles of Terra, but MM6 mandate of heaven clearly is the best since they moved to pseudo 3d.

Lets just hope Ubisoft can pump some life back in the series with Dark Messiah of Might and Magic ( although the title does not really boost confidence ).

[vmxa1]

If you still play here is a forum with some active players. I am not super active there as most questions are answered before I log on.

They have VI/VII/VIII forums, but respond to all versions.

http://telp.org/mm6/tavern/mm6tavern.html

[realpolitic]

Found a city? Building a settler and it's garrison will just water down your attack. Attack first, then if you take just 25% of your enemy's cities, he'll have less to build a resonce. Then, put up your cities, build any nessarasry workers for railroads in between wars. If needed, renew the treaty once.

[vmxa1]

That works when you are over powering civs. Not so good at high levels.

[ElConejo]

There are some great help tips and strategies on CivFanatics (i know blasphamy ) But they helped me with a few things.

[Addled Platypus]

so have you invaded ?

what did you do?

how did it go?

screenies?

[akulla]

Originally posted by vmxa1
That works when you are over powering civs. Not so good at high levels.

Ya, I agree.

[trev]

I find invasion of another island at high levels is very difficult, I tried invading the Iroquois island (deity, islands, huge) who were only a semi-advanced power (about 6 techs behind the leaders) just as I learnt computers (they did not have tanks), used 8 full transports, plus about 5 carriers full of planes, took a city, then held it for 1 counterattack turn, losing all units bar a tank army on last bit of red to a mix of Mounted warriors and Cavalry (maybe 100 used in the counterattack), they also moved 215 single move units onto a single square next to the captured city (60% infantry, remainder Med Inf, and Longbowman). As this was beyond my ability to defend against, I killed another 20 units on other squares and sued for peace. After about 10 turns they joined a MA against me and retook the city losing probably 100 plus of their units in the process. I lost about 20 units plus 20 artillery.
When the AI's have 300 odd units available for counterattacks on deity level, invasions of enemy territory is almost impossible particularly when 5 turns plus are needed to move units to the island. I suspect a minimum of 80 bombers, plus about 80 units are necessary for an invasion force, and it is rare that such a vast number of units can be spared for such an invasion.

[Addled Platypus]

2 tatics I use on a city off the coast

1.move a BB into it....2 benfits

a. it will defend
b. extend the bombard further inland

2. If the continents are close enough paratroopers


PS- dont forget about building airbases out side of your boundries, just protect them at all costs

[Addled Platypus]

Two transports -staggered transport:
1 leaves from homeland, 1 leaves from invasion point
1st 2 landings an Army of MA each
1 carrier max bombers (2 squares out, bombard for at least 2 turns)
I BB, DD, (bombard for at least 2 turns)

Once the first city was taken:

Start paradropping to help quell resisters and or pillage missions(5 para's per turn)
Task force moves to soften up next city


Its all down hill from there.....

I like to spilt a civ in half, see scrennie

Mosscow and Novogard fell the next turn!

[akulla]

Nice example

[inca911]

Any of you all try tiny world Deity games?

[Addled Platypus]

one of these days, yes


one day, I will do Sid

[akulla]

I suck, I still play at Monarch

[diablovision]

I have quite a bit of experience in doing invasions, but mostly after the industrial age, when I have transports, air power, and tanks. I like to play archipelago with max land (60% water I think), and prefer maps where there are 2 or 3 primary continents and numerous islands between half a civ size and two civ size.

My strategy is basically to aim for the point on the target island that is closest to my terroritory (to minimize transport distance). Sometimes it can be good to have a "staging area" or forward operating base that is closer to the target island but that is not part of your main continent. With airlift, you can amass most of your units in that staging area over a number of turns so that you can sweep in with a single overwhelming force, rather than trickling in. Trickling in never works! Make sure that you have enough transport ships to mount a serious first wave invasion. Sometimes I have to gather troops from multiple locations on the globe for an invasion and due to timing the second wave might be a few turns later; this has saved me multiple times, as the second wave gives the invasion just the shot in the arm that it needs.

I usually target one city as the invasion point and plan to take it on the turn after disembarking. On the disembark turn, I will soften up the target a bit with bombers and bombarding from destroyers and battleships as much as possible and pound them a second time on the next turn before the landed force attacks the city. Hills and mountains make excellent disembarkment points.

You should have escort ships (destroyers, battleships, and submarines) to establish a lane of naval control. When the invasion force lands, I have the destroyers fan out from that city down the coasts to destroy any enemy transports in the area. Watch out of submaries, and don't let any of your transports move unescorted!

Make sure that your core cities are pumping out your best attacker exclusively. Don't expect that you'll be able to manufacture a navy and have it in attack after the invasion has begun; you should have all the navy you need at the start. You will no doubt need to keep ferrying in your newly minted troops as your invasion expands on the target continent / island, so you need to keep your shipping lane clear and your transports in constant motion. Remember that if your total transport distance is more than one turn, you can save a few squares by pulling your transport up to your own coast and moving your troops onto it rather than pulling your transport all the way into a city and loading your troops in.

I usually make sure that I have enough troops to take four or more cities when I attack in the first wave (more if the enemy is larger). Thus, by the time your second wave or reinforcements arrive, you will have expanded to surrounding cities and the new forces can make their way to the front lines.

Before every war you should decide how far you are willing to go. Do you just want a beachhead, a luxury, or a resource? Do you want to weaken your opponent and carve off a small part of their territory for yourself? Do you want to cut them in half and permanently cripple them, or do you want to wipe them out completely?

The answer to that question will determine how big to make your first wave, and whether you will need to keep pouring reinforcements in.

[Addled Platypus]

great points diablovision

also dont forget to occupy 2-3 tiles of the enemy city, this counts agaisnt their happiness (especially if there is a lux source their)

I always try to bomb any mines, coal etc that is too far inland to cut their money/trade/production

Of course having rails is a great way to speed troops to your disembark area

My top builds are tank/Inf/Para distributed amongst my top 10-12 cities, other cities continue wonders and infrastructure.

My last idea is to build a small core of settlers/workers (6 or so each)
After you capture and hold the first city and cure unrest. Any city at size 8 or higher I raze to the ground and rebuild (I usually get barracks, graineries and temples with the build because of wonders). Its alot faster than waiting and dealing with unrest after capture. At least the next three settlers join the city for fast growth and the workers are escorted by tanks to continue rails to the front.

[ElConejo]

Originally posted by Platypus Rex

My last idea is to build a small core of settlers/workers (6 or so each)
After you capture and hold the first city and cure unrest. Any city at size 8 or higher I raze to the ground and rebuild (I usually get barracks, graineries and temples with the build because of wonders). Its alot faster than waiting and dealing with unrest after capture. At least the next three settlers join the city for fast growth and the workers are escorted by tanks to continue rails to the front.

How can you be reeping the effects of wonders when your on another continent?