View Poll Results: Which Mods?

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  • Accel Production

    12 12.63%
  • AU Army Mod

    10 10.53%
  • Regicide off

    18 18.95%
  • Remove ability of Monks to pillage

    7 7.37%
  • Set all world map levels to have the same corruption and tech rate factors; probably to current huge

    12 12.63%
  • Fix the placement of AI starting locations

    15 15.79%
  • Allow us to pick the AI only playable civs

    11 11.58%
  • 10 10.53%
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Thread: Which Mods?

  1. #1
    Paddy
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    Which Mods?

    Ok, Sengoku - Sword of the Shogun was the final choice.

    and it was agreed that we modify the scenario for a better game

    This poll is to choose which mods we use

    This is a multi-poll, so you can choose more than one

    -------------------------------------

    Accel Production: Well, strictly speaking actually a rules and not a mod, but listed here.
    Affect: Halves the cost of every structure & science costs.
    Reason: Would cut down the turns needed to win.

    AU Army Mod: Incoropate as much of the AU Army mod that applies in this conquest.
    Affect: At a minimum, this is Army's capacity is 1 but has 4 extra HP. I don't remember if this conquest includes equalivents to HE / MA / Pentagon or not.
    Reason: AI doesn't use armies properly, giving humans an unfair advantage.

    Regicide off: Leave the King units in, but remove "King" ability + "AI King" flag if exist + set the AI offense / AI defense flags approatively.
    Affect: This will cause the AI to use the King and not just keept hem parked.
    Reason: AI King units are ridiciously easy to find and kill because they never move.

    Remove ability of Monks to pillage:
    Reason: AI can't stop fast moving defensive units from pillaging (either humans or other AI), this results in inferstucture reverting to the stone age.

    Set all world map levels to have the same corruption and tech rate factors; probably to current huge:
    Affect: Removes the affects of the bug where the person's previous map size immedately prior to them starting this game is used.
    Note that if I've overestimated Japan map size and it is closer to the normal "large" than "huge", I mean large instead.
    In addition check what numbers are currently in Japan's world map parms and compare against standard. It might reveal an intended map setting.
    The difference between tiny & huge normally is:
    3/4X to 2X standard tech costs, increasing as map size increases
    3/4X to 2X standard corruption, decreasing as map size increases

    Fix the placement of AI starting locations
    Affect: See the Japan civ discussion thread for the full list.
    Reason: A handfull of civs are clearly in positions where a human would move the location one or two tiles for a much better start, but the AI would never do that on its own.

    Allow us to pick the AI only playable civs
    Affect: Allows us to choose any of the 18 civs instead of just 8.
    Reason: The most challenging positions are marked as computer only, so doing so would allow for a greater challenge in six or seven cases. (The others starts are comparable to the existing human playable ones)

    The Mod
    Affect: Assure that the is happy.
    Reason: Apolyton Tradition to include a option.

    - Many Thanks to Joncnunn



    -------------------------------------


    further questions (which will be adjusted as we go as required)
    • which civ in the nominated scenario?
      Discussion on the Japan civs is underway in preperation of that poll
    • which format of government do we take?
      ie. succession style we have used in Rome, or other formats...
    • what time frame do the governments have to achieve their goals?


    other questions to be added as required

    -------------------------------------
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    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  2. #2
    Daddy-O
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    Accel Production
    No.
    AU Army Mod
    No.
    X Regicide off
    Sounds fair.
    Remove ability of Monks to pillage
    No & and tough luck.
    X Set all world map levels to have the same corruption and tech rate factors; probably to current huge
    Sounds like a bug fix. Do it.
    Fix the placement of AI starting locations
    No.
    X Allow us to pick the AI only playable civs
    Sure, now we can have even more discussions and polls.
    X
    Why not ?
    Banano Laŭrajta Registaro en Ekzilo - Bananoj gismorte!| Cows O' Plenty|Wish List For ciV | Ming on Spammers: ...And, how do you know that I'm not just spamming by answering him ;) |"This is all about peace; and in the quest for peace you have none." -my son wise beyond his years

  3. #3
    Ljube
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    Local Date
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    Accel Prod : Yes
    AU Army Mod : Yes
    Regicide Off : Mandatory
    Remove ability of Monks to pillage : Yes
    Set all world map levels to have the same corruption and tech rate factors; probably to current huge : I don't know what you're talking about
    Fix the placement of AI starting locations : Yes
    Allow us to pick the AI only playable civs : Yes. By the way, I'd like to do that in a single game. How can I do that?

  4. #4
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    Local Date
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    AP - Yes
    Army Mod - Yes
    Pillage - Always
    Map levels,Corruption - Yes

    all others: does not matter
    anti steam and proud of it

    CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

  5. #5
    Paddy
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    Local Date
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    Accel Production

    Regicide off

    Fix the placement of AI starting locations

    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
    I am of the Horde.

  6. #6
    joncnunn
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    Local Date
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    I voted for all the above except AP.

    -
    There's a bit more to the Regicide off than listed for whoever makes the actual edits:

    1. Type 1s will need to be manually placed for each civ.

    2. King unit flag and any AI-King flags removed.

    3. AI offense and AI defense flags set apporatively. Maybe something like types 1-3 Defense On / Offense off, 4 - 6 both defense and offense on, 7 - 10 Offense on, defense off.

    4. A short test run to ensure that this one king unit can still be upgraded with a baracks and tech while multiple kings don't get created. [Especally type 1 that have a cost of 0 ]
    Last edited by joncnunn; May 20, 2005 at 17:47.
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  7. #7
    Beta
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    Local Date
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    Originally posted by joncnunn
    I voted for all the above except AP.

    -
    Me too because jon knows what he is talking about.

    I am looking forward to this one.

    Hai!
    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

  8. #8
    ormuzd
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    yes to everything except AP and Monks pillage removed

    Everything seems like a more than reasonable and no need even to think about. It is always better to make the AI more challenging without unfair advantages

  9. #9
    Paddy
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    Local Date
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    15 votes done

    approx 9 - 11 to go...

    looks like will not get over the 50% tidal mark sorry Con
    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  10. #10
    ormuzd
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    but the pillage option is behind the banana, this is quite good

  11. #11
    Ljube
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    Hmm, I'm not so sure. AI can't defend against pillaging monks.

  12. #12
    Paddy
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    Well those that want the "Remove ability of Monks to pillage" added to the selected mods best get onto with some heavy campaigning before the rest of the forum votes then
    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  13. #13
    Modo44
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    The Banana needs some campaigning as well.
    Seriously. Kung freaking fu.

  14. #14
    Micha
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    I don´t care for the pillaging ability. Also I´d like to take one of the more promising civs (with higher difficulty instead?), so I´m fine with the 8 standard civs...

    All other things
    Heinrich, King of Germany, Duke of Saxony in Cyclotron's amazing Holy Roman Empire NES
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  15. #15
    planet
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    ap, no reg, and the banana thing

  16. #16
    Daddy-O
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    re: "Allow us to pick the AI only playable civs : Yes. By the way, I'd like to do that in a single game. How can I do that?"

    I don't mod games but I have been looking into the editor to look at some of the other civ settings. That setting is on one of the screens in the editor.

    The editor is not an option on the main start up menu. You will need to go here:
    Start -> All Programs -> Atari -> Civilization III Complete Edition -> Conquests Editor -> Civ3ConquestsEdit

    I think that is a setting on the given civilization.

    Good Luck & Vote !
    Banano Laŭrajta Registaro en Ekzilo - Bananoj gismorte!| Cows O' Plenty|Wish List For ciV | Ming on Spammers: ...And, how do you know that I'm not just spamming by answering him ;) |"This is all about peace; and in the quest for peace you have none." -my son wise beyond his years

  17. #17
    conmcb25
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    I voted
    *"Winning is still the goal, and we cannot win if we lose (gawd, that was brilliant - you can quote me on that if you want. And con - I don't want to see that in your sig."- Beta

  18. #18
    Micha
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    Originally posted by skrobism
    The editor is not an option on the main start up menu. You will need to go here:
    Start -> All Programs -> Atari -> Civilization III Complete Edition -> Conquests Editor -> Civ3ConquestsEdit
    You can´t say that in general. For me, there is neither a folder called "atari" nor any "complete edition" nor can I access the conqests editor from the start menue.
    In general the editor can be accessed by clicking the exe file in the civ3/conquests folder on the hard disk. This works for all languages and all editions of the game.

    Heinrich, King of Germany, Duke of Saxony in Cyclotron's amazing Holy Roman Empire NES
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  19. #19
    joncnunn
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    I'm not sure if PTW or Vanilla even had such a feature as non-human playable civs.

    But in Conquests, if you want to make a civ unplayable for that scenerio, you indeed need to go into the civ 3 editor, and go into the scenerio properties screen.

    edit: translated first sentenice from Jon-speak into English.
    Last edited by joncnunn; May 24, 2005 at 10:33.
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  20. #20
    Micha
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    Originally posted by joncnunn
    I'm not if it PTW or Vanilla even had some a feature as non-human playable civs.
    I am sorry, but I have not the slightest clue what that sentence should mean...
    Heinrich, King of Germany, Duke of Saxony in Cyclotron's amazing Holy Roman Empire NES
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  21. #21
    joncnunn
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    Local Date
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    I've done some looking around, we have an implemention issue with the no-regicide option.

    Basically, the way the Ancient Calvary and Crusader units work in the epic is that they are unbuildable by all civs, but get spawned by the SoZ and KoT wonders.

    The upgrades skip over the case where the upgrade would be unbuildable by the civ.

    So, to turn regicide off, we need to also decide the following:

    1. Do we want every civ to be able to build multiple Shoguns?
    In this case, check the stats against comparable units and decide which types to allow and which to disallow. (In no event do we want Shogun-1s built which are free to build.)

    2. A varation is that we have certain unique to each civ structures spawning a different level of Shoguns every X turns. [We add 9 Small Wonders, each that spawn types 2-10, having the cost of these small wonders increase as the tech goes up.]

    3. Or alternatively which level do we want to lock the starting shoguns to. In this case, we might even consider giving a different level of shoguns to different oppoents. Say giving oppoents far from us the best shogun types and those closer weaker types, with us getting the worst of all.

    4. Another case, is we could mod the Shogun 10, to a unit with no movement nor attack [defense only] and grant every AI civ that unit. (We'd get a weaker Shogun.) This would make taking an AI capital difficult for everybody.
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  22. #22
    Paddy
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    Jon, that seems to change the Regicide issue quite a bit...
    I thought we could have just turned that option off.
    Just off back into editor to have a look at this.

    Which of your variants do you like?
    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  23. #23
    Paddy
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    Local Date
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    Regicide

    I thought that turning Regicide off was as easy as unclicking this option here

    am I missing something in this?
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    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  24. #24
    joncnunn
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    Paddy, I think it's more complex than that becuase of the king units that regicide relay upon. (Shogun 1 thru 10)

    But I'll run tests tonight to see if king units appear if marked as kings even with regcide off and report back. There may be something that prevents there being kings at all when neither regicide button is on.
    It would be great if kings could function as kings without (either form) of regicide on. I do note that king behavior isn't really seperable from AI king. Any king unit disables all non-King AI tactics, so the AI will just park them.

    Based on some of the unit capiabilites, there's a possibility that the AI would never upgrade King units as well in conquests. (Basically Shoguns 7-10 have their stealth attack ability on for Shogun 2-10 but off of Shogun 1 [and armys])
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    AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now. :mad:

  25. #25
    Paddy
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    thanks Jon, looking forward to your results
    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  26. #26
    joncnunn
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    Ran the tests last night.
    To keep the kings as kings with upgrades, but no new ones, plus no regicide, we just need to:

    1. On that screen, turn recide off, and also remove the auto-place king units.

    2. Tab over to players screen. Add Shogun-1 to all 18 players.

    That's it.

    Successfully updated my Shogun-1 to Shogun-2. And then after several attacks of barbs with my Shogun-2, finally got him killed and the game continued. (There is no disband button for king units.) Note that you can not replace the king you lost though.
    I suspect the AI is just going to park it's king in the starting city and stack lots of units there.
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  27. #27
    Paddy
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    thanks Jon

    glad that worked easily
    Gurka 17, People of the Valley
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  28. #28
    joncnunn
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    Since I'm the first Shogun, I guess I'm in charge of the moding. [And already have the very popular no regicide implemented.]

    Those with opions on the AP & AU army mod that haven't voted now should probably vote soon. (I'd like to have this poll closed by Friday at Noon US CDT (-05:00) so I can implement the voted upon mod over the weekend.)

    Oh, and the great banana is not pleased with only getting 9 votes.
    Last edited by joncnunn; May 26, 2005 at 09:51.
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  29. #29
    Daddy-O
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    Looks like jon already did a bunch of work on this and we already voted to turn off regicide BUT

    What if we leave regicide on and just limit ourselves from using it? This means much less actual modifying.

    Just an idea and maybe the work is already done.
    Banano Laŭrajta Registaro en Ekzilo - Bananoj gismorte!| Cows O' Plenty|Wish List For ciV | Ming on Spammers: ...And, how do you know that I'm not just spamming by answering him ;) |"This is all about peace; and in the quest for peace you have none." -my son wise beyond his years

  30. #30
    joncnunn
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    Skorbism, the AI tending to form far sprung cities makes that dificult. And the work is indeed done.

    Plus I can tell you that in other games that sometimes I thought I was attacking an AI's last city, but in reality they had another one I couldn't see way off my map. (Another landmass)

    There are actually quite a few seperate landmasses in this conquest, not that any of them are worth settling.

    I am proposing if Emperor level is adopted us acting like Regicide was still on in one respect, keeping our Shogun unit alive.

    Originally posted by skrobism
    Looks like jon already did a bunch of work on this and we already voted to turn off regicide BUT

    What if we leave regicide on and just limit ourselves from using it? This means much less actual modifying.

    Just an idea and maybe the work is already done.
    1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
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    By Jrat in forum CtP2-General/Help/Strategy/Multiplaying-Archive
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: February 23, 2002, 18:18

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