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Thread: I want to like Daggerfall but.........

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    child of Thor
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    I want to like Daggerfall but.........

    Ok here we have what may(or may not) be what i hope will be the definative thread here for Daggerfall - to match with our current Morrowind one.

    Is anyone still playing this old beast i ask? Or maybe some will be interested in trying it out, afterall even just finding the game and getting it running has almost become the stuff of legends.

    First stop two of the most usefull sites to get us going:

    Elderscrolls past games section: any tips on getting the game to run on whatever flavour pc you've got should be found here:
    http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/i...p?showforum=15


    The UESP website: all the files,patches and tips you can shake an ebony dagger at here:
    http://www.uesp.net/dagger/espdag.shtml

    And this site was one of the first i found looking for some pics:
    http://www.svatopluk.com/daggerfall/



    Now this is my recomended way of installing+playing Daggerfall:

    1. Need an easy computer to install on
    2. Need copy of Daggerfall(ebay?)

    Go to UESP website and download:

    1. the Patch(DAG213.exe being the latest).
    2. Andyfall mod

    if you want a bit extra you can also get the ADDQUEST.zip(also known as CompUSA) - it adds extra quests and items

    So far.....

    OK old computer running win98se - check!(for newer pc/os advice check the elderscrolls past games section above).

    Daggerfall+files - check! ok lets go!

    1. Run scandisk on your C: drive(the default install for daggerfall)

    2. Install Daggerfall huge install(450MB), to default C:

    3. Unzip 213 patch into the Dagger directory.

    4. Unzip Andyfall the same.

    5. Unzip ADDQUEST(CompUSA) into the ARENA2 folder inside your ANDYFALL folder(hopefully inside your Dagger folder!)

    EDIT: i think also maybe put it in the ARENA2 folder in your DAGGER folder? So i've put it in both, just in case.



    now for the tricky bit..........

    1. Right click on MY COMPUTER, select properties then the PERFORMANCE tab, then the FILE SYSTEM tab, then the TROUBLESHOOTING tab. On the troubleshooting options make sure you check the box 'disable write behind caching for all drives'

    Now 'apply' the changes and exit the menus. You have to restart your pc at this point.

    2. right click on the daggerfall icon now on your desktop and select 'properties'

    3. under memory set EMS to 'NONE', XMS and CONVENTION to 'AUTO', set DPMI to '24000'(24MB). Set Initial Enviroment to '2048'.

    4. Also under 'properties' set:

    *'Do not allow screensaver'
    *'Always suspend in background'
    *Usage = 'Full screen'
    *'Mouse exclusve'

    5. Make sure that you UNCHECK 'close on exit'.
    6. Make sure that you UNCHECK 'suggest dos mode if necessary'.

    7. DO NOT attempt to run the the game from the autorun as it will crash(well its going to crash at some point anyway, but this is worse!).

    8. and finaly make/add a small 2 lines to your CONFIG.SYS on your C root directory:

    DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEM.SYS
    FILES=90

    and thats about it i think

    Now to run the game

    make sure you have nothing running in the background that you can do without.
    Use 'Ctrl'+'Alt'+'Delete' and close as many programs as you can

    I leave just 'Explorer' and 'Systray' running(after making sure i'm not online of course(unplug from the wall/modem etc) - its best to turn of any firewalls and background virus scanners)

    Start > Programs > Ms Dos Prompt

    At the Dos prompt type(not including the ' xxx ' quote things) :

    'cd..'(enter)
    'cd dagger'(enter)
    'andyfall'(enter)

    you should see the Andyfall title screen, followed by the normal Daggerfall graphic and then the game start screen......hopefully

    Now its time to Create a Character - very fun and much more involved than in Morrowind
    Last edited by child of Thor; May 26, 2005 at 16:57.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    Dis
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    I never even heard of the elder scroll series before morrowind. though recently I saw a abandonware version of the first one. Looks difficult, but pretty ambitious for its time. they had weather effects even way back then.

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    Dis
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    post some screen shots, maybe I'll get it if it looks decent.

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    snoopy369
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    Originally posted by Dissident
    I never even heard of the elder scroll series before morrowind. though recently I saw a abandonware version of the first one. Looks difficult, but pretty ambitious for its time. they had weather effects even way back then.
    Arena was amazing ... I played it way back in the day (mid 90s, well after it had came out, but one of the first commercial games i played). It beat the crud out of everything out at the time ...
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    Tuberski
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    I started with Daggefall, never completed the game.....but never tried to either.

    All the people saying Morrowind characters are broken never played Daggerfall.

    Werewolf anyone?

    ACK!
    Don't try to confuse the issue with half-truths and gorilla dust!

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    Space05us
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    Starting off in Daggerfall can overwhelm the senses. No other game has such a huge world to explore. Travel around a land mass twice the size of Great Britain, exploring dungeons, castles, tombs, and even alternative dimensions. Just to walk from one end of the world to the other will take over 2 full weeks in real-time (we actually tested this!)
    http://www.bethsoft.com/games/games_daggerfall.html



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    Dis
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    2 full weeks? There's no way!

    How can it be that large? Is it randomly generated as you are walking accross?

    I think they mean 2 full weeks game time.

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    child of Thor
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    I hope some folks want to join me on a Daggerfall adventure

    For graphics check some of those links i posted above - plenty there

    And they do mean two weeks in real world time, really. The thing is the wilderness part of Daggerfall is fairly generic compared to Morrowind and the scenery which consists of tree/stone sprites you can walk through(no collision detection). So its not as graphicaly sophisticated for sure. Still it is an old game - a good one for sure, but old

    The bigest problem with Daggerfall is its infamous stability issues - just check the Elderscrolls past games section to get some idea of the headaches getting this game to run can cause.

    I took a determined approach to this game, as it sounded like the ultimate rpg(and in many ways it is). I built my pc specificaly to run Daggerfall and it also happens to be great for other old classic games
    Last edited by child of Thor; April 26, 2005 at 06:25.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    Space05us
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    Im not picky when it comes to graphics, finding this game and then scraping the dough together to buy it will be very difficult though.

    I think I'll download Arena and check it out in the mean time.

  10. #10
    child of Thor
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    Arena is even more primative - i got the free download from the bethseda website, but i found after Morrowind and Daggerfall it was just too great a step back imho. Still for the historic perception of these games Arena is definatly worth a go

    And you get to travel over all of Tameril in Arena!!(but its game world is not as large as Daggerfalls)
    In Morrowind your restricted to Morrowind only(smallest of the game worlds).
    In Daggerfall your in the north west part of Tameril(actually the biggest game world of the three).

    I've started a new character, so i'll be around to drop the odd bit of story and advice(though i'm no daggerfall pro).

    So far i'm finding it more demanding to play than Morrowind, and definately harder/more intense. Monsters are a big deal in Daggerfall for a low level char.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  11. #11
    duke o' york
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    I'd want to be at least at level 4 after installing the thing - that first post is crazy!
    Having only juts begun to play Morrowind, and with the next one due out before I've even got a small chance to explore a tiny bit of that, it seems unlikely that I'll ever get around to playing Daggerfall, but would take it with me to a desert island if I ever found myself with loads of free time. I'd need CoT's explanation too mind.

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    Space05us
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    CoT, would you happen to know of the top of your head why Arena might be giving me trouble when I try to run it on DOS Box?

    I have the sound settings set all correctly, and Ive even tried starting it up with no sound at all. But every time I get a black screen.

  13. #13
    child of Thor
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    Space05us, no sorry - but go have a look around the Elderscrolls past games forum, you will probably find your problem resolved there

    I've never used Dos-box i'm afraid(or XP for that matter).

    @ duke o' york - i just dont know what you could possibly mean? Its all there in easy to follow sequencial steps

    But yes you do have to jump through many hoops to get Daggerfall running properly. Still much of that info is what i found from the various websites i'd searched for advice trying to solve my own daggerfall problems, and it works

    Depending on how Oblivion turns out, Daggerfall may remain to many as the ultimate rpg game in the elderscrolls series(and maybe of all time?).
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    Space05us
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    Im not sure what makes me feel stupider, visiting the elderscrolls forums or finding the answer to my problem there.

    Either way my IQ dropped at least 5 points, and I got Arena running.

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    child of Thor
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    yes i know the feeling all too well. Still no harm in asking i find

    And great that you fixed the problem

    I find i nearly always have some kind of problem trying to run old games on new pcs(well my definition of new may be slighty different to most - my PIII566 with 32mb geforceMX2 is 'new' to me!)

    Sound problems(and sound is one BIG aspect of Daggerfall, in the dungeons its very ambinet and creepy - really puts you on edge), display issues etc......

    So thats why i keep an old P166 around - it plays all these oldies, with sound and as they should be
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    Grumbold
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    I loved Arena and Daggerfall but I don't think I'd have the patience to play them these days. The squeaky door opening noise still haunts me!

    Its definitely 2 real weeks to walk across Daggerfall, the place is vast. Points of interest are set onto the map, the other features are generated by some sort of algorithm so that they don't mysteriously change if you travel the same route twice. That said, there is no need to travel in real time when you can fast travel from point of interest to point of interest unless you want to chance across randomly generated dungeons to explore.
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
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    Space05us
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    Here's a picture of big brave me after having cleared the lovely little dungeon-prison!



    note: I have no idea why DOSBox taks such small images, but its nice and clear!


    unless you want to chance across randomly generated dungeons to explore.


    Sounds like my kind of game!

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    Space05us
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    Here's a picture of big brave me after having cleared the lovely little dungeon-prison!


    I just realised one of my items is giving me a +20 STR bonus! Lucky me!

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    child of Thor
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    He looks cool i never found such a powerfull item when i got out that first dungeon

    I'll see if i can get a few of my Daggerfall screens for posting here.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  20. #20
    Standup
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    There's also Redguard from Bethesda which i assume is set in the same 'universe'. I have a copy still in it's plastic which has been on my 'to play' shelf for several years now. From the reviews i've read it seems to be much more adventure/3d combat+ jumper than RPG and never quite appealed enough to open it.

  21. #21
    Grumbold
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    Yep they certainly did some spin offs. Battlespire was a more FPS approach which I wanted to go back to with a better spec computer. I gave up when I hit issues running it under a newer version of Windows. Redguard was a much tighter RPG with a specific plot and simpler character design. I didn't get very far with that before I got distracted.

    @Space05us - just about all Daggerfall dungeons were randomly generated, so it was simpler to get a job from a guild or NPC first. That put the location on your map and you could fast travel to it. The quality of outdoor terrain and dungeon design wasn't quite up to a standard where you would want to explore another random one just for the sake of seeing what was in it after you had done a bunch to work your way up in guild rank or gaining approval from the town dignitaries.

    I don't remember if Arena has random dungeons as well, I think it had all preset spaces to explore. I'm very fond of that game as about ten of us were all playing it at the same time and swapping boasts of our progress. There was a big race to be the first to be wearing a full set of Daedric armour.
    To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection.
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  22. #22
    child of Thor
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    I've been playing Daggerfall all week Its growing on me too - i actually look forward to the dungeon quests now! You literaly have to spend a few game days to clear them, and sometimes your goal is impossible to acheive. For example my character is not a magic user and sometimes you can find your mission goal is behind a magicaly sealed door. Still one of the great things about Daggerfall is that this kind of problem doesnt lead to a dead end. Unlike in Morrowind where all the quests are basicaly sequencial, in Daggerfall the quests are randomly asigned. Sometimes you just cant finish them, so you have to take it on the chin and except defeat and move on. Everything is based on your reputation, if you fail a quest then your reputation takes a hit with the relevant guild/person.

    Anyway its weird because i haven't had one single crash so far(although i have fallen into the void twice while exploring dungeons), which is very different from my last experience of the game.
    So for the time being i've given up on Morrowind(as that was crashing far to often), and i guess can look forward to an eternity in Daggerfall

    Oh and here is a story from my current game.

    PART ONE:

    Beards, caving and a Nord called Olaf:

    Royalty are a strange lot, best for the common man to keep out their way for we are often just a pawn in their game. Olaf hadn't been so lucky, in the wrong place at the wrong time, although the young prince he had saved might disagree.

    Still that was distant history now. Even as he watched the sunrise over Northmoor town, Olaf knew he was here on the wishes of the King of Tamriel, Uriel Septim; and he would eventually know Olaf had survived the shipwreck, and there was the small matter of the royal mission.
    He kept the royal invites to Sentinel and Wayrest, safe in the folds of his thick green cape; they could wait a while.

    Now he was more grateful for the fine cloaks warmth against the morning chill, he'd been sitting out on the roof of the White Boar pub since first light, waiting for the mages guild to open its doors and he had a good few hours left.

    So he past the time going over all that had happened since his arrival in High Rock and his survival of the shipwreck. While deep in thought he examined his equipment, testing the string on the dwarven bow he had found, and running a whetstone over the ebony dagger that the king had given him as a gift of thanks.

    Even the fine steel plate cuirass he had bought from the Odd Blades in Daggerfall got a fresh rub down with an oil cloth, an adventurer who didn't care for his belongings would soon be a dead adventurer; Olaf had seen that outcome many a time.

    So the hours past and the clock of the Mages guild struck 11, Olaf mussed that a mages life must be a comfortable one with all the sleep they seemed to enjoy.
    Jumping down from the pubs roof he quickly made his way to the door, he wanted to be first to ask about the job he had heard the mages guild had open.
    Last edited by child of Thor; May 4, 2005 at 06:01.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    child of Thor
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    edit: pic deleted for weird overnight gremlins - now on page two of this thread.
    Last edited by child of Thor; May 5, 2005 at 05:19.
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

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    child of Thor
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    Pic two: Sunrise over Northmoor.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  25. #25
    General Ludd
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    Originally posted by Space05us

    note: I have no idea why DOSBox taks such small images, but its nice and clear!

    That's probably the actual resolution of the game.
    Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

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  26. #26
    child of Thor
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    Originally posted by General Ludd
    That's probably the actual resolution of the game.
    could well be - i know Daggerfall runs in 640x480 mode, and its not bad looking really
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  27. #27
    child of Thor
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    PART TWO:

    Beards, caving and a Nord called Olaf continued:

    “Ah, Olaf do come in, I’d been told we may be expecting you”, the bearded Tristan Albastyn ushered the nord over to his desk.
    Olaf took pause to look over to the women wearing a purple dress in the corner of the room, she seemed to have been in a rush to get up as she had clearly forgotten a vital bit of clothing.

    Tristan cleared his throat before continuing,
    “This isn’t a straight forward job, your going to have to ask around and find some leads as I only have an initial contact for you; you’ll have to find out the rest as you best can. Still the pay isn’t bad and it doesn’t sound too dangerous”, Tristan shuffled some papers around, a sign Olaf knew meant he wasn’t telling the whole truth.

    “Alright I’ll take it”, Olaf replied in an even tone, playing along with the Master mage.
    “Good, very good, I knew we could count on you”, he beamed back as he quickly scrawled on the contract document,
    “Just make sure your back here in 3 months time for the reward”. And that was that. Olaf went along to meet his contact in the Temple of Mara, one Julia Eberston.

    Once Julia Eberston had stopped dancing and put some more clothes on things got a lot more complicated.
    “Ummm ok I think the guys name is Adrin Tolmor, he’s a book store owner in Black Rock village….or was it Blue Rock?”, Julia was a dizzy blonde Olaf was realising.

    “Are you sure you don’t have time to take me out for a drink?”, she asked again through batting eyelashes.
    “No sorry Julia, but when on a job I don’t let myself get distracted I’m afraid, but when I get back then we’re on”, Olaf tried hard to sound sincere and was counting on the fact that in a few months she would have forgotten everything.

    He said his goodbyes and made as calm an exit as possible, she wasn’t his type and he’d heard exhausting things about priestesses of Mara!
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    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  28. #28
    child of Thor
    Emperor child of Thor's Avatar
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    Hmmm...now who would you speak to first?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    'The very basis of the liberal idea – the belief of individual freedom is what causes the chaos' - William Kristol, son of the founder of neo-conservitivism, talking about neo-con ideology and its agenda for you.info here. prove me wrong.

    Bush's Republican=Neo-con for all intent and purpose. be afraid.

  29. #29
    Dis
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    so those screenshots are of daggerfall or arena?

    how old is daggerfall? those graphics look pretty old. I was under the impression the game came out in the late 90's.

  30. #30
    Nostromo
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    Daggerfall came out in '95 irc
    Let us be lazy in everything, except in loving and drinking, except in being lazy – Lessing

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