Armies?

sirsnuggles · February 16, 2005, 17:07

Does anyone have accurate information about the specs of armies?

I saw someone post something over in CFC, but its accuracy seems suspect to me. Is the strength formula that is listed over there accurate?

I'd like to hear about army strengths and such from the Apolyton community, particularly related to C3C.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 18:06

So, if you load an army with all units the same type and supposing those units are 6/3/3 (i.e. Cavalry) then:

Attack bonus with:
Neither Pentagon nor Military Academy: (6+6+6)/6 = +3
Pentagon only: (6+6+6+6)/6 = +4
Military Academy only: (6+6+6)/4 = +4 (rounded down)
Both Pentagon and Military Academy: (6+6+6+6)/4 = +6

With Pentagon and Military Academy, assuming you load 4 units of the same type into each army, the net result is to simply double their attack and defense stats, because the bonus is (4*X)/4 = +X Which makes a 4-Cavalry army into a 12/6/4 unit.

sirsnuggles · February 16, 2005, 18:34

Ummmm. What do you mean by "neither pentagon nor military tradition?"

You can't have cavalry without Military Tradition.

sirsnuggles · February 16, 2005, 19:09

Armies by Theoden

chuckdelicious · February 16, 2005, 19:20

You can't have the pentagon without MT, either.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 20:08

Alright guys lets not be obtuse. Of course you cannot have calvs with out MT, but that is not the point. The point is it is att + att + att/6 without the academy.

With it is att+att+att/4. I just use the calv as an easy to calc att value.

I did not read the link, but if it expalins it, what is the question pending?

Theseus · February 16, 2005, 20:29

vmxa1 meant the Military Academy.

Sabre2th · February 16, 2005, 20:34

Originally posted by vmxa1
So, if you load an army with all units the same type and supposing those units are 6/3/3 (i.e. Cavalry) then:

Attack bonus with:
Neither Pentagon nor Military Academy: (6+6+6)/6 = +3
Pentagon only: (6+6+6+6)/6 = +4
Military Tradition only: (6+6+6)/4 = +4 (rounded down)
Both Pentagon and Military Academy: (6+6+6+6)/4 = +6

With Pentagon and Military Academy, assuming you load 4 units of the same type into each army, the net result is to simply double their attack and defense stats, because the bonus is (4*X)/4 = +X Which makes a 4-Cavalry army into a 12/6/4 unit.

Corrected for those that can't figure it out for themselves..

Theseus · February 16, 2005, 20:53

Oh, and btw, Armies ROCK!!!

Some clarifications to the CFC post:

* Units in Armies fight in serial order by strength (either offensive or defensive, as appropriate), and thus, given respectively blitz and multiple defense actions, can in fact each be promoted through multiple wins in a given turn.

* Army healing takes place at the same rate while on ships... a heckuva thing for Berserks and Marines (and Spec Forces in the AU Mod).

* Mixed-unit Armies are an incredibly effective way to maintain/upgrade strength over time... in stock C3C, with the two relevant SWs, a 2xSwords+MedInf+Infantry Army will add 4 attack points and 4 defense points to each unit, so, in order, the units become:

Attack: 10/8/7/7
Defense: 14/6/6/6 (plus modifiers)

* The extra movement point adds subtleties: Slowmover Armies can keep up with Knights... Knight Armies keep up with Cavs, etc. Also, Mixed-unit Armies get interesting: Add an Infantry to a 3xCav Army, and send it along with Tanks!

* C3C Army pillaging is a wonder to behold.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 20:54

Ok to make it plain, I will change it to MA.

Sabre2th · February 16, 2005, 21:24

Originally posted by Theseus
* Army healing takes place at the same rate while on ships... a heckuva thing for Berserks and Marines (and Spec Forces in the AU Mod).

Are Berserk and Marine armies amphibious? I didn't think they were. I know I haven't had luck with Special Forces and air drops...

Melboz99 · February 16, 2005, 21:49

I never realized that Armies heal unitl today. I couldn't figure out what was going on at first, because I was in enemy terrirtory with about half health on a 3x Calv army. The next turn I was more than 3/4 full.

Do slow units slow down a fast army? For instance, say I have 3 tanks, what would happen if I put an infantry in there?

Would I loose any moves? Would I still be able to attack multiple times?

Dan O.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 22:15

Armies act as if you had BattleField Medicine build. They heal even in enemy territory.

They heal at 1 hp per unit per turn. If in a city with a barracks they heal like a normal unit. That is fully after one turn of no activity.

Armies move at the speed of the slowest unit +1.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 22:17

Originally posted by Sabre2th

Are Berserk and Marine armies amphibious? I didn't think they were. I know I haven't had luck with Special Forces and air drops...

Armies of marines or beserkers retain any special ability if they are homogeneous.

Melboz99 · February 16, 2005, 22:45

Originally posted by vmxa1
Armies act as if you had BattleField Medicine build. They heal even in enemy territory.

They heal at 1 hp per unit per turn. If in a city with a barracks they heal like a normal unit. That is fully after one turn of no activity.

That's real cool.

Originally posted by vmxa1
Armies move at the speed of the slowest unit +1.

I guess that's realistic, and makes sense. Just kind of sucks is all.

I guess one of the best armies to build would be a 3 modern armor, and one Mech Inf army.

You guys listed how attack is calculated, how is defense?

Is defense based on all units, or the strongest defender?

I've got to go read up on how battles are calculated. Like, how does the computer calculate how many hit points you loose if you attack and such.

Dan O.

vmxa1 · February 16, 2005, 23:56

Originally posted by Melboz99

"I guess one of the best armies to build would be a 3 modern armor, and one Mech Inf army."

I would say no to this, but maybe T would like it. I would not want to slow down my MA army with an MI (3 move vs 2 moves). Why do it? The MA's do not need a defender after all. They have the second best defesive numbers and will surely be killing anything they attack.

I use 4xMA's to bust MI defenders in metros all the time.

"You guys listed how attack is calculated, how is defense?

Is defense based on all units, or the strongest defender?"

The defense is the same, just replace the attack numbers with defensive numbers.

Bare in mind that if it is a mixed army, the defense of the one doing the defending is all that matters.

Here is what I do often, have a 3x army and get the pentagon built. The army is maybe muskets and I now have rifles. I stick in a rifle and it will do most of the combat.

If it is say an older army and is made up of knights, I will stick in a calv or a strong defender. Depending on what I will use the army to do. Is it still attacking or is it sitting in a newly captured city? If the latter, I will stick in a defender.

Understand that I am talking about sid games and will be having many hundreds of battles and hence have a steady stream of leaders.

I may have to scrap some to allow a better army to form for the lack of cities to meet the 4 per army.

Sabre2th · February 17, 2005, 02:36

Originally posted by vmxa1

Armies of marines or beserkers retain any special ability if they are homongeous.

That's what I would expect, but I know I've lost airdrop ability with homogeneous armies... Strange that they'd do it for marines and not paratroopers

vmxa1 · February 17, 2005, 03:04

Yup, but it is a fact no air drops. That is why I did not say any specialty or any homogeneous army.

sirsnuggles · February 17, 2005, 05:03

I have attached a handy excel spreadsheet that will act as a tool for calculating army strength.

Since you will be able to plug in different units to see what the strength of the army will be, you may determine whether adding that spearman--or that cavalry--into your army will be worth your while.

Let me know what you think.

Theseus · February 21, 2005, 17:54

Originally posted by Melboz99
I guess one of the best armies to build would be a 3 modern armor, and one Mech Inf army.

While I am a huge fan of mixed-unit Armies, I agree with vmxa1 here. At this point 4xMA Armies are just ridiculously powerful, so much so that the benefit of mixing in a MechInf is not warranted. And the 4-mp reach can be... effective.

Especially if you are having major wars, and can generate say, five or six MGLs... All of a sudden you've got a basically unstoppable juggernaut on your hands.

Solomwi · February 22, 2005, 11:34

T speaks the truth. The 4-mp reach is also why I won't mix other units into a cav army. Granted, the best you can hope for is 12 attack, but with that kind of reach, you can let bombers do the heavy lifting, then use a 4xCav army to clean up one last, damaged MI or Inf unit and take the city.

Theseus · February 22, 2005, 12:45

When I first played C3C, I remember for some reason (AI city placement?) making a point of loading MAs into a bunch of 3xCav Armies... sheer mayhem.

Solomwi · February 22, 2005, 20:14

AI city placement does, indeed, make a 4-mp unit a godsend. That's why the best time, speed-wise to conquer AI territory is when they've just taken it from another AI, and the low culture city borders allow you to use a tile or two of road/railroad to get to the next city.