Georgia

Saras · November 26, 2003, 07:47

Originally posted by Azazel

East Germany indeed has improved ( but it now faces other problems) OTOH, the vast majority of the people of the SU have suffered immensly from the fall of the SU. You can talk about phones ( which haven't improved in most places, since that requires money that isn't there ), and we can talk about no central heating, no jobs, no food... and the ensuing crime, lack of personal safety, etc. etc.

But are these problems caused by the fall of SU per se, or by other issues, such as some nations getting their **** together (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia etc.) and others NOT doing that? Just how different were the SU systems in Baltics and rest of SU. Answer - not much.

Az · November 26, 2003, 08:55

Not much. But similar culture with europe, and proximity to it sure made it easier. The other new nations didn't have that advantage, and instead of a poorly managed system ( That DID have the potential to be good, but that's a different discussion), went to no system, and if any new system will be constructed, it will be imposed on those nations.

Facts are facts. People in the FSU suffer now, and suffer a lot. You know it and so do I. I am glad that the Baltics, Poles, and Chechs live better lives, but Russians don't, Ukrainians don't, and the Caucasians CERTAINLY do not.

Saras · November 26, 2003, 09:17

--"Facts are facts. People in the FSU suffer now, and suffer a lot. You know it and so do I. I am glad that the Baltics, Poles, and Chechs live better lives, but Russians don't, Ukrainians don't, and the Caucasians CERTAINLY do not."

To put it bluntly, when you live off someones labor, you tend to live worse if they escape.

Az · November 26, 2003, 09:37

Yes, Because the baltics were the powerhouse of the SU, feeding it all.

Saras · November 26, 2003, 10:59

Take a ****ing hint - they WERE.

DinoDoc · November 26, 2003, 11:06

Originally posted by Azazel
OTOH, the vast majority of the people of the SU have suffered immensly from the fall of the SU. You can talk about phones ( which haven't improved in most places, since that requires money that isn't there ), and we can talk about no central heating, no jobs, no food... and the ensuing crime, lack of personal safety, etc. etc.

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Az · November 26, 2003, 11:36

Take a ****ing hint - they WERE.

rriight.

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Maybe if it wouldn't fall at all, all those things would still exist?

DinoDoc · November 26, 2003, 11:49

Originally posted by Azazel

That strikes me as being more the fault of the incompetent rule of the USSR rather than its fall. How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Maybe if it wouldn't fall at all, all those things would still exist?

It was inevitable by the mid-80's.

Az · November 26, 2003, 12:05

Originally posted by DinoDoc
It was inevitable by the mid-80's.

Mid 80s? It was inevitable at around 88', I think.

DinoDoc · November 26, 2003, 12:11

Now short of any further quibbling do you have a realistic answer to the question I asked earlier?

How would things have been better had the system fallen later than it did?

Imran Siddiqui · November 26, 2003, 12:57

Az, just read what Vagabond said:

Furthermore, if the USSR didn't desintegrate in 1991, the situation would now be even worse. Well, at least for Russia

Saras · November 27, 2003, 02:40

Originally posted by Azazel

rriight.

[q

I stand corrected - but only in terms of grain. Most of the meat and meat products, plus canned fish came from the Baltics.

Nubclear · November 27, 2003, 02:59

Iki pasimatymo

Saras · November 27, 2003, 04:21

whos that?

Nubclear · November 27, 2003, 04:30

President Rolandas Pakas.

Saras · November 27, 2003, 04:54

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
President Rolandas Pakas.

Nubclear · November 27, 2003, 04:58

It's my first "major" photoshop

Saras · November 27, 2003, 05:17

And you chose a shitty president for that

Nubclear · November 27, 2003, 05:55

Don't worry. Didn't you see the missile in the background?

Saras · November 27, 2003, 06:20

No. It's stealth

The Rooskies sure keept their military secrets well.

laurentius · November 27, 2003, 07:14

Originally posted by Saras

I stand corrected - but only in terms of grain. Most of the meat and meat products, plus canned fish came from the Baltics.

Saras is correct

Saras · November 28, 2003, 02:23

Originally posted by laurentius

Saras is correct

I forgot dairy products. Our dairy industry shrank by 3 times, and we're still producing over 2x what we consume. Same or worse in Lat and Est.

Serb · November 30, 2003, 01:52

Originally posted by Saras
Originally posted by paiktis22
The fall of the SU brought pain and misery to a lot of people.
0.01/10

10/10

Hi Saras,

Serb · November 30, 2003, 02:03

Originally posted by Saras

But are these problems caused by the fall of SU per se, or by other issues, such as some nations getting their **** together (Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia etc.) and others NOT doing that? Just how different were the SU systems in Baltics and rest of SU. Answer - not much.

In times of SU in Baltic republics there was a highest standart of living among entire SU.

Serb · November 30, 2003, 02:09

Originally posted by Saras
Take a ****ing hint - they WERE.

The only thing I remeber from times of SU that had a label with Lithuanian language (

or it was Latvian?) on it, was "shproty" (canned little fish). Nothing else comes to mind.
Come on Saras, do you really believe that Baltics feed 300 millions of Soviet population?

Sava · November 30, 2003, 09:19

What are you talking about Serb? Everyone knows Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania are the breadbasket of the Russian world.

Serb · November 30, 2003, 09:44

VetLegion · November 30, 2003, 18:45

Perhaps they had the biggest GDP/capita and thus payed most taxes?

I would not be surprised. Relative "richness" of a territory is an attribute that takes long to build up, and usually doesn't change with the change of system (capitalism->communism).

Saras · December 1, 2003, 03:34

Originally posted by Serb

The only thing I remeber from times of SU that had a label with Lithuanian language (

or it was Latvian?) on it, was "shproty" (canned little fish). Nothing else comes to mind.
Come on Saras, do you really believe that Baltics feed 300 millions of Soviet population?

Doh, there were no Lithuanian labels. And of course they didn't feed 300 people. You grew your own grain and cought most of your own fish, but meat, cheese and poultry came mostly from Baltics.