Vaxxine Rebellion

[Kidlicious]

Preliminary studies would indicate that they are less likely to get infected... but nothing that would be considered conclusive.
But yes, they are less likely to get really sick or die... that has been proven.

That's what you say if Biden tells you it's a fact, so....

[Ming]

Preliminary studies would indicate that they are less likely to get infected... but nothing that would be considered conclusive.
But yes, they are less likely to get really sick or die... that has been proven.

[Kidlicious]

I don't think they are less likely to get infected. I think they are less likely to get really sick and die.

[Ming]

And none of this proves the point you falsely made that vaccinated people are the problem...
For a to be dangerous, they have to actually have the virus.
People with the vaccine are far less likely to get infected.
People with out the vaccine are far more likely to get infected.

Again, the facts.
The high majority of cases are in the unvaccinated
The vast majority of those cluttering up the health system are unvaccinated
Most of the deaths are those not vaccinated.

And either way, the high strength of the Delta variant makes mask wearing, for both vaccinated and unvaccinated even more important.

[Kidlicious]

Here's something from the full report.

....Lower levels of neutralizing antibodies after vaccination and at diagnosis were associated 276 with breakthrough infections in a recent report from Israel,18 supporting findings of the 277 present study. However, we found no correlation between vaccine-induced neutralizing 278 antibody levels at diagnosis and the development of respiratory symptoms or viral loads 279 (i.e. infectivity). Thus, while neutralizing antibodies might be a surrogate of protection, 280 especially against severe diseases as a whole,19 they might not be good indicators of 281 disease progression and infectiousness for breakthrough Delta variant infection. The rapid increase in neutralizing antibodies after infection among cases of the present study in turn 283 suggested that a third dose may improve the immunity and potentially the protection. 284 At the beginning of the outbreak, none of the HTD members of staff (including the PCR 285 confirmed cases) were tested positive for N-protein antibodies, which only develop in 286 response to whole-virus based vaccine and natural infection. Additionally, between 12th 287 and 14th May 2021, all members of HTD staff were subjected to a periodic testing for 288 SARS-CoV-2 by PCR, but none was positive. The data thus suggested that the infected 289 cases were captured at an early phase of the infection. Therefore, by carefully following up 290 the patients during hospitalization, we have also provided new insights into the natural 291 history of breakthrough Delta variant infections. We found viral loads of breakthrough 292 Delta variant infection cases peaked around 2-3 days before and after the development of 293 symptoms, and were 251 times higher than those of the infected cases detected during the 294 early phase of the pandemic in 2020.5...]

[Kidlicious]

Okay, I assume these are people who got sick enough to show up at the hospital. If I can carry 251x the thresh hold viral load before getting sick thanks to a vaccine that doesn't mean the unvaccinated are carrying lower loads, it means they're getting sick from a lower exposure than vaccinated people. Now I believe vaccinated people who do get infected will have a shorter transmission window and fewer symptoms that spread the bug, but it seems strange vaccinated people would produce larger viral loads. I'd expect people without much immunity to produce the largest viral loads, their systems are failing to suppress the virus.

Maybe the answer is in the full report of the study. I haven't looked at that. But one person commenting on it said that the viral load in vaccinated individuals spikes before the body has time to do what it does to stop the virus. It kind of made sense, but this isn't my thing. I can just try to tell when people are bull****ting me. She didn't seem like a bull****ter.

is this the same 251x from the first link? That one compared vaccinated to unvaccinated, this one compares Delta to older variants.

It stands to reason that the individuals with older variants weren't vaccinated. I haven't verified that though.

[Berzerker]

The study found vaccinated individuals carry 251 times the load of COVID-19 viruses in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated.

While moderating the symptoms of infection, the jab allows vaccinated individuals to carry unusually high viral loads without becoming ill at first, potentially transforming them into presymptomatic superspreaders.

This phenomenon may be the source of the shocking post-vaccination surges in heavily vaccinated populations globally.

Okay, I assume these are people who got sick enough to show up at the hospital. If I can carry 251x the thresh hold viral load before getting sick thanks to a vaccine that doesn't mean the unvaccinated are carrying lower loads, it means they're getting sick from a lower exposure than vaccinated people. Now I believe vaccinated people who do get infected will have a shorter transmission window and fewer symptoms that spread the bug, but it seems strange vaccinated people would produce larger viral loads. I'd expect people without much immunity to produce the largest viral loads, their systems are failing to suppress the virus.

Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020.

is this the same 251x from the first link? That one compared vaccinated to unvaccinated, this one compares Delta to older variants.

[Kidlicious]

Gee... I did attack the argument by pointing out what you failed to mention.
I guess Cult members are a tad paranoid

So why didn't you mention that if you knew about it. Is it because it would invalidate the point you were trying to make?

Either way, very sloppy on your part don't you think

It's called being on a 15 minute break at work. Don't jump to conclusions.

[Kidlicious]

The unvaccinated people were infected with the earlier variant, so not really a comparison. But it shows that vaccinated people transmit the Delta variant at least as much as vaccinated people. So the whole justification for a vaccine mandate is debunked. A vaccine mandate will not stop or even slow down the spread of the virus.

[Ming]

I didn't miss anything. Stop making up nonsense accusations.

I looked at it all. Maybe you have imagined that I didn't.

Attack the argument not the person making it and you might actually get somewhere.

Gee... I did attack the argument by pointing out what you failed to mention.
I guess Cult members are a tad paranoid

So why didn't you mention that if you knew about it. Is it because it would invalidate the point you were trying to make?

Either way, very sloppy on your part don't you think

[Kidlicious]

Abstract


Background: Data on breakthrough SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant infections are limited.

Methods: We studied breakthrough infections among healthcare workers of a major infectious diseases hospital in Vietnam. We collected demographics, vaccination history and results of PCR diagnosis alongside clinical data. We measured SARS-CoV-2 (neutralizing) antibodies at diagnosis, and at week 1, 2 and 3 after diagnosis. We sequenced the viruses using ARTIC protocol.

Findings: Between 11th–25th June 2021 (week 7–8 after dose 2), 69 healthcare workers were tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. 62 participated in the clinical study. 49 were (pre)symptomatic with one requiring oxygen supplementation. All recovered uneventfully. 23 complete-genome sequences were obtained. They all belonged to the Delta variant, and were phylogenetically distinct from the contemporary Delta variant sequences obtained from community transmission cases, suggestive of ongoing transmission between the workers. Viral loads of breakthrough Delta variant infection cases were 251 times higher than those of cases infected with old strains detected between March-April 2020. Time from diagnosis to PCR negative was 8–33 days (median: 21). Neutralizing antibody levels after vaccination and at diagnosis of the cases were lower than those in the matched uninfected controls. There was no correlation between vaccine-induced neutralizing antibody levels and viral loads or the development of symptoms.

Interpretation: Breakthrough Delta variant infections are associated with high viral loads, prolonged PCR positivity, and low levels of vaccine-induced neutralizing antibodies, explaining the transmission between the vaccinated people. Physical distancing measures remain critical to reduce SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant transmission.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733

[Kidlicious]

This is an article on the study.

Study: Fully Vaccinated Healthcare Workers Carry 251 Times Viral Load, Pose Threat to Unvaccinated Patients, Co-Workers


A preprint paper by the prestigious Oxford University Clinical Research Group, published Aug. 10 in The Lancet, found vaccinated individuals carry 251 times the load of COVID-19 viruses in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated.

By
Peter A. McCullough, M.D., MPH

The Defender is experiencing censorship on many social channels. Be sure to stay in touch with the news that matters by subscribing to our top news of the day. It's free.

A groundbreaking preprint paper by the prestigious Oxford University Clinical Research Group, published Aug. 10 in The Lancet, includes alarming findings devastating to the COVID vaccine rollout.

The study found vaccinated individuals carry 251 times the load of COVID-19 viruses in their nostrils compared to the unvaccinated.

While moderating the symptoms of infection, the jab allows vaccinated individuals to carry unusually high viral loads without becoming ill at first, potentially transforming them into presymptomatic superspreaders.

This phenomenon may be the source of the shocking post-vaccination surges in heavily vaccinated populations globally.

The paper’s authors, Chau et al, demonstrated widespread vaccine failure and transmission under tightly controlled circumstances in a hospital lockdown in Ho Chi Minh City, Viet Nam.

The scientists studied healthcare workers who were unable to leave the hospital for two weeks. The data showed that fully vaccinated workers — about two months after injection with the Oxford/AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine (AZD1222) — acquired, carried and presumably transmitted the Delta variant to their vaccinated colleagues.

They almost certainly also passed the Delta infection to susceptible unvaccinated people, including their patients. Sequencing of strains confirmed the workers transmitted SARS-CoV-2 to one another.

This is consistent with the observations in the U.S. from Farinholt and colleagues, and congruent with comments by the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention conceding COVID-19 vaccines have failed to stop transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

On Feb. 11, the World Health Organization indicated the AZD1222 vaccine efficacy of 63.09% against the development of symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection. The conclusions of the Chau paper support the warnings by leading medical experts that the partial, non-sterilizing immunity from the three notoriously “leaky” COVID-19 vaccines allow carriage of 251 times the viral load of SARS-CoV-2 as compared to samples from the pre-vaccination era in 2020.

Thus, we have a key piece to the puzzle explaining why the Delta outbreak is so formidable — fully vaccinated are participating as COVID-19 patients and acting as powerful Typhoid Mary-style super-spreaders of the infection.

Vaccinated individuals are blasting out concentrated viral explosions into their communities and fueling new COVID surges. Vaccinated healthcare workers are almost certainly infecting their coworkers and patients, causing horrendous collateral damage.

Continued vaccination will only make this problem worse, particularly among frontline doctors and nurses workers who are caring for vulnerable patients.

Health systems should drop vaccine mandates immediately, take stock of COVID-19 recovered workers who are robustly immune to Delta and consider the ramifications of their current vaccinated healthcare workers as potential threats to high risk patients and coworkers.

CLARIFICATION: The comparison of viral load between vaccinated and unvaccinated (pre-vaccine era) as reported in the Chau et al. 2021 Lancet preprint is between two different variants of SARS-CoV-2. Dr. McCullough states directly that samples were compared to those “from the pre-vaccination era of 2020.” Thus, differences between these two groups aren’t a result of vaccination status alone. The authors of the Chau et al. 2021 study in their rebuttal to our piece point out another preprint (Li et al. 2021) which reported a difference in viral load of ~1000 between patients infected with the Delta variant and patients infected with A/B. However, the vaccination status of the Delta variant patients in this preprint is not reported. Thus, no one here has done a direct comparison between unvaccinated Delta patients and unvaccinated A/B patients to determine the true difference in viral load. In two additional preprint scientific publications (Riemersma et al. 2021, Chia et al. 2021), comparable viral loads of the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 are reported among vaccinated and unvaccinated patients. However, this itself is an indictment of vaccine efficacy as both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals possess the ability to spread the Delta variant. Simply stated, COVID vaccines have failed to stop transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

[Kidlicious]

I guess you missed this part in your link...

However, the vaccination status of the Delta variant patients in this preprint is not reported. Thus, no one here has done a direct comparison between unvaccinated Delta patients and unvaccinated A/B patients to determine the true difference in viral load. In two additional preprint scientific publications (Riemersma et al. 2021, Chia et al. 2021), comparable viral loads of the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 are reported among vaccinated and unvaccinated patients.

I didn't miss anything. Stop making up nonsense accusations.

I will give you credit this time for at least coming up with something that actually was about what you were claiming... instead of the first cult post you made that was not even close to what you were claiming, and was also totally opposite of your conclusion.
But as usual, maybe you should look it all and not just selected parts.

I looked at it all. Maybe you have imagined that I didn't.

Attack the argument not the person making it and you might actually get somewhere.

[Ming]

I guess you missed this part in your link...

However, the vaccination status of the Delta variant patients in this preprint is not reported. Thus, no one here has done a direct comparison between unvaccinated Delta patients and unvaccinated A/B patients to determine the true difference in viral load. In two additional preprint scientific publications (Riemersma et al. 2021, Chia et al. 2021), comparable viral loads of the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2 are reported among vaccinated and unvaccinated patients.

I will give you credit this time for at least coming up with something that actually was about what you were claiming... instead of the first cult post you made that was not even close to what you were claiming, and was also totally opposite of your conclusion.
But as usual, maybe you should look it all and not just selected parts.

[Kidlicious]

Vaccinated carry 251x the load in their nostrils compared to unvaccinated people.

https://drrichswier.com/2021/08/25/study-vaccinated-individuals-carry-251-times-the-load-of-covid-19-viruses-in-their-nostrils-compared-to-the-unvaccinated/

There you go cult member.